I’m considering buying a cheaper streamer ala ND5XS2 etc, and where the dac is a ladderdac/ R2R.
Do any of you have experience with R2R dacs of quality that justify the Naim New Classic.
Some has already shared their experience on this forum, but I would like those who may have opinions or experiences to do the same.
I have received many suggestions for alternatives on another forum in my home country, but it would be very useful for me to know about experiences related to Naim, Naim users.
I can’t help, but I am moved to ask why are you focused on a particular DAC architecture rather than sound, which I am led to believe is more more to do with implementation and associated filtering etc? To me the Chord Hugo family of DACs sound far better than the DAC in the ND5XS with which I compared Hugo, but I have no idea of the architecture of the ND5’s DAC. (Chord uses FPGA, but whether that has anything to do with the difference I don’t know).
Thank you IB for taking the time. The question is completely within the scope and the answer is that I am curious about the r2r architecture, have read a lot of positive things about it. I have by no means decided to make a purchase, at this point I am most interested in hearing if others have experiences they want to share.
Over the years I have owned most of the Naim CD players, except the CD555, all the streamers except the ND555/NSS333, in addition to the Ndac. All have been tried with the various psu’s.
This time I want to take a closer look at alternatives before purchase.
I am using Chord Qutest today, it seems promising, but is it up to the level of NC? I have considered Hugo, TT and also see that Dave is sold at advantageous prices. Hugo is not to my taste in terms of design and with a redundant head amp in addition. TT or Dave are in a higher price range than I want to step into. For the same reason I’m holding back on the 333.
My belief is to choose a reasonable streamer and rather put something more into the dac, at an acceptable used price. To be honest, spending that much on a transport like the XS2, just to achieve system automation is excessive so the Lindemann Bridge is an alternative for me.
What it will be in the end God knows, an Ndac again maybe, I’ve always liked it.
I’ve tried a denafrips ares 2 and initially it sounded great, with a richness and warmth to vocals and extended bass. But after a while it sounded a bit soft and tended to make all music sound lush and romantic, which didnt suit. But they are well reviewed and worth a listen
Thanks for explanation. FWIW I think the DAC is tge key component of a digital source, so spending more on that makes every sense, while keeping streaming/rendering part separate minimises cost of any future hardware changes that might be needed to keep up with online streaming requirements if you use those.
I have to admit to knowing nothing at all about dac architecture. I did listen to a number of dacs as I progressed with streaming though. The Chord dacs seem to me to give the best clarity and separation that I look for. The Auralic dacs seem to extend that though by keeping the clarity but also losing the slightly bright edge that I find with Chord. It’s not much but is noticeable and for me worth paying for. Auralic have released details of their dac implementation across the years, so for a techie interest there should be info on the ‘net somewhere.
There are many to choose from and each has its own characteristics, some for the better, some not. I generally read about r2r that it provides an open, rich and analog reproduction. At the same time, some are described as the opposite of what I’m looking for.
The ND555 has, as I read on Naim’s website, a self-developed r2r dac implemented, so there must be something to the architecture.
I may buy a 2010 Ndac as a start, compare it with Qutest and maybe buy an r2r dac from the local used market. Right now, Denafrips, Gustard and Borderpatrol appear to be for sale, and are reasonably priced.
In other words, the hard way to learn and understand.
S
Yes, I did the same. Buying pre owned with the possibility of re selling if not liked, suited me. If you have a local market for Auralic I’d try the Vega G1 at 1000 pounds UK, or the Vega g2.1 at 3000 pounds UK. You should get your money back if you resell. ( I kept mine and now have 3 systems using Auralic kit)
Hi I spent considerable time looking reluctantly to get on the Digital band wagon. Most devices use the Ess chips and I found them all smearing and a lot of glare in upper registries. And I went all the way to about 500.00 $ CDN. Finally I tried the Gustard R26 R2R ladder DAC and it was and is still great with my 62/hi. 140 set up. However, I would not necessarily call it a fully functioning streamer.
During this search I did find the there were chip based DACS with other manufacturers chips that were also good on the top end but they were usually less fleshed out in detail or bass. THE Gustard was really the only one I could enjoy short of the chord Dave. (over my budget.) Of course, these are referring to items I actually heard in my system so Mileage may Very on other units. Personally, I would not likely even try anything with the ESS line they just didn’t sound clean enough. They do some great things with bass and sound stage. but yuck on the mid and top end. Of course, I have had friends over and played Vinyl title to compare and they are all startled at the difference and better listening experience on my VPI.
Great that you have found something compatible with your set up. I have to disagree about the ESS ( sabre) chip set though. It depends on how it is implemented. My Auralic devices have excellent top end and I would say are closest to analogue sound that I have heard in a dac.
I have used a R2R DAC for a number of years now, initially started off with a Metrum Acoustics Musette. I had to buy without a listen & initially had some concerns as to how I would like it so didn’t want to jump in at the level I actually had my eye on. From the first few notes I knew it was exactly the sound I was after, much closer to analog vs any previous DAC I had owned. Shortly after swapped it for its bigger brother the Menuet. The previous designer/owner of Metrum started a new company, Sonnet Digital, I then switched to their Morpheus which I have used for probably close to 10 years now. They have one model up, the Pasithea which I have been thinking about but also curious about dacs from Rockna, DCS, Aqua Acoustic, etc..
I have an Aqua La Scala MkII and an Esoteric K1X (the latter on home demo) both of which employ resistor-based DACs and it’s a sound that is distinctly un-digital. Quite frankly once you hear the sound of custom discrete DACs versus off-the-shelf types you’ll never go back.
Interesting input @daren_p your post hit my original intension with R2R. Also, I have been offered to listen to or even borrow a Metrum Octave from a local where I live. I certainly will when autumn comes.
Next I will look further into the ladderarchitecture to understand better and last, audition or purchase used as you did at first.
S