The story behind this is my sub woofer died after 20 years. It was nothing special! So I decided to research for a new one. I noticed that many Naim forumites are using Rel sub woofers. So I searched Rel website and they do a matching to speaker suggestion. For my speakers it suggests Rel 812. I got one. Then I realised through research that you are better off with two. So this is what I have done:.
Please share your Rel sub woofer stories with us all!
For me the sound is unbelievable. Massive bass extension, wider soundstage and sounds more organic.
I use with Home Theatre as well as Naim system. I use High Level connection direct to each Focal Sopra 2. Fitted Mogami cables today. Note that the black cable is floating and there are no ground issues.
Going through the same process with Sopra 2s. Got one REL S/812 a couple of months ago and a second one last week. Running the second one in now. Once it’s run in I’ll experiment with placement of both subs and speakers a little bit. Once that’s sorted I’ll send pictures.
Adding one REL was an improvement in terms of bass extension, obviously, and that was clearly worthwhile. Adding the second one added a lot of what I’ll call dimensionality, for lack of a better term. There is a spaciousness and effortlessness to the sound now. My wife noticed it immediately and noted how much better everything sounded. Adding two subs does seem to improve clarity to the whole sound picture.
I will post more as things progress. Listening has become pretty addictive, though. The system sounds amazing. As I wrote elsewhere, the subs really seem to bring what I think are a couple of the Sopras great qualities to the fore: openness and solidity.
I’m glad to hear that the sound is an improvement with 2 Rel 812s.
I had alot of problems sourcing a 2nd at reasonable cost as they are now discontinued.
I bought a 2nd one which was manufactured refurbished, only to be told a few days later that it was sold already. Before that I asked original dealer if I could buy a 2nd and was told they had sold out. The prices were also jumping up. My original purchase, was sold at lower price by mistake also.
I managed to source a 2nd at a reasonable albeit substantially higher price than the first. I knocked down the price but I am happy with the service including pallet delivery.
The Mogami speaker cables are alot more substantial than Rel’s offering. I got 2 made up by Designacable. Was surprised how good quality they are for the price.
I don’t know what difference they make, but they are better cables and I got mine made to 2 x 1.5 metres rathwr than 10 metres of original. Yeah, could have chopped them down but decided to change out and upgrade!
My Rel Carbon Special has been with me for six years, partnering beautifully with Magico, Audiovector, and Marten standmounts. However, when I upgraded to Marten Mingus floorstanders, it became clear that the subwoofer couldn’t quite keep up with their pace. Last month, I passed it on to a new owner. A truly wonderful pair of subwoofers that served me exceptionally well.
This is the thing. The speakers need to be partnered with the right subs. The S 812s are right for Sopra 2s. But you go up a gear and different subs are required.
Likewise here: getting a second S/812 was a little touch and go! When it became clear I’d keep the first one and wanted to order a second one, my dealer tried to order it. This was shortly after the announcement that they had been discontinued - and the Canadian distributor was already out of stock! Fortunately, a few weeks later the distributor informed my dealer that they had held some back and that an additional one could now be ordered. I got a good price on both. So glad it worked out!
In UK they upped the price suddenly and then they were gone. I got first for ÂŁ1999 and 2nd for ÂŁ2400. They go for ÂŁ3250 full retail price and many dealers sell for more than that.
I was offered two brand new S510s for ÂŁ2199 but I had already fallen in love with one S812 at that stage!
It’s a big investment and with new cables I have spent £4600 on the new gear. Putting that in perspective I spent £7000 on Sopra 2s. But they were an absolute bargain! Retail price on those is £15k.
Another thing the stereo pair seems to have done is that, while there is more clarity, there is also an increased sense of organic togetherness, a sense that the musicians are all playing together and that everything is in balance and sounds much more natural and flowing. Not really sure why adding stereo subs should make such a difference to the overall sound, but the effect is not subtle. What a wonderful thing.
Also: for whatever crazy reason, the retail price of the REL S/812 is quite a bit cheaper in Canada! Retail here was $4950 CDN before being discontinued. Your retail price of 3250 GBP is over $6000 CDN! This is very surprising to me.
I got mine for about $4200 CDN each which today is 2235 GBP. You did well.
Congratulations Dan sounds like its a case of fine tuning their placement and if their impressive now with more run in they will sound incredible.
2 questions any plans to do anything with your flooring I know you are a wizard with building work.
But would it be very time consuming and disruptive ?
Any thoughts going the other frequency extreme with a pair of supertweeters ?
I have Super tweeters incoperated in my Magnepan panel ribbons and they definitely bring a sence of effortless airyness
But I really need a sub as my Mags roll off at about 40 and when I swap to my Focals there is definitely more weight on things like piano.
Also started with 1 sub (in my case S/510) a few months ago. I was unimpressed with my soundbar/sub combo so I’d got a receiver and centre speaker, and hooked the receiver up to my 252.
I wanted to make sure whatever sub I got was good for hifi and not just cinema, so ended up with REL. I don’t think the 606s lack bass at all, but I was curious, and since I was getting a new sub anyway…
REL speaker matching tool doesn’t do Kudos so I emailed them and they said 1 x 812 or 2 x 510. I thought they were just up selling so went with the 510.
To start with it just felt like too much bass on some tracks, but I soon got used to it. Then I started drinking the stereo sub kool aid and ended up with a 2nd 510
2 is definitely better than 1! Not more bass, just more encompassing. I have the set fairly low. 4 clicks on crossover and 6 on high level volume. For cinema I have the low level on about 14 clicks. Rumbletastic.
That is also a good way to describe the effect of a stereo pair: the music is more “encompassing,” as you say. I have the settings quite similar to yours for music - they seem quite low, but in my system and in my room they seem about right. Enjoy your subs and your wonderful system.
The flooring plan will involve potentially an improved subfloor. It needs to be as rigid as possible. If I take up the existing sub floor then I may get the electrician to run dedicated power for the HiFi and Home Cinema using a sparate consumer unit.
Whatever I do to the floor everything will need to come out of the room. The speakers are heavy.
I was then thinking of an engineered oak floor in natural colour or light grey, with an underlay.
Fitting the finished floor isn’t so much the issue. It’s the disruption of taking everything out, and the subfloor up and rebuilt.
I am busy at work for the rest of this year, so maybe next year!
As for super tweeters I haven’t considered them. I think this is unlikely in my set up.
Your Sopra 2 's are like a new speaker now with the subs their like turbo charged.
LIke an engine when the turbo kicks in but you have it with that extra bass extension ..and you have a twin turbo
I suppose bass roll off and extension is just a given with all speakers without subs and most reviews mid and hf is the key areas.But so much can be done with subs to eek out that final piece of the frequency range .
I can only imagine what the Russian Techno at full tank must sound like now…can you feel it in your chest with the bass ?
But as you say and other posters its what it subtly adds to all music more detail and soundstage and bass texture and timbre
A superb system upgrade and way more bang for the buck then a cable change
Have a great day Dan and I know you will enjoy this track ..back to 1991 and the old skool
With the Rel Subs if it’s all turned up the house quakes. Now this may be fun for a while! What I have found is I am turning the volume down on the 500DR slightly and get a very different sound with the subs. The bass extension means playing at previous levels (prior to Rels) isn’t necessary.
That being said I haven’t really played at full pelt as I am running the subs in for a few days.
There’s alot of power on tap. As you say it’s a big upgrade for the system and Sopra 2s.
It’s going to take some getting used to and getting it dialled in right. Having 2 is an improvement on one. It sounds more integrated into the system.
As you say its all a learning curve now with dialing them in with placements positions and run in
But you have done so much with the marginal gains all adding up with cables and room treatment.
Its a real journey our hobby. But when you sit in front of the system and your smiling as it just sounds to your ears so right and the music is touching you mentally and emotionally and you know you can improve certain components, but you have no urges as its so expensive and only marginal gains your in the sweet spot
A wet old morning here so listening to the LP 12 and it sounds sublime theirs such a rightness about the sound especially with Keel and Karousel ..like you my LP12 is definitely my favourite source but in a good place as CD and F,M tuner both enjoyable
Subs really do bring an added dimension, especially a pair. I
I use s510’s but I have never grasped how to truly dial them in as none of the rules seem to apply to my room! Ended up with 7 crossover and 8 gain and it sounds great and you really notice the sound “Collapse” when you turn them off so I think I am close enough!
Yours look great Dan and similar positioning to mine - enjoy!
Gary
