Okay let’s put this to bed with a poll, if everything else is equal (use your imagination!) what’s your preference (sonically)?
- Ripped file to server
- CDP
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Depends completely on which streamer and which CDP. A cheap, < £100 streamer vs a CD555??
Or dCS Vivaldi vs cheap Amstrad type CDP??
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I said everything else being equal - imagine!
Even so, getting people to agree on whether 2 streamers or 2 CDPs are similar is like nailing jelly 
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Can we have a ‘No noticeable difference at all’ option please?
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Surely the poll should be between a ripped file on a server and a CDT (transport).
Otherwise the DAC in either the streamer or player will be dominant factor in the final SQ.
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When Naim came out with the Naim dac white paper, this was the overview…
''Since 1991 when the first Naim CD player – the CDS –
was launched, Naim’s design philosophy has been that
for best sonic performance from digital audio the master
clock must be positioned close to the DAC chips. When
the clock and DAC chips are closely coupled, timing errors
are minimised. Whereas if a CD player is connected to
an external DAC via S/PDIF, the master clock is in the
CD player and the DAC chips are in the DAC, ie they
are separated by the S/PDIF interface. The DAC has to
recover the clock from the S/PDIF signal, and this can
easily introduce timing errors (jitter). Moreover, S/PDIF
circuitry represents a radio frequency (RF) noise source
and its presence in a CD player is audible. Consequently,
Naim has never fitted S/PDIF outputs to its CD players
and has never developed an external DAC – until now. ‘’
I still believe that but not the -until now. They had no choice to come up with a DAC of their own as this was too much of a trend at the time. They still are making streamers with a buit-in dac but there is no separate dac anymore.
So, CDP for me.
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Too late old chum, fence sitting not allowed!
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We did this test at length.
For SQ?
-
Core rips and NDX2 versus CDS2 - CDS2 wins.
-
Core rips and NDX2 versus CDI - NDX2 wins.
-
Core rips and NDX2/XPSDR versus CDS2 -well…
After some hours, all who tried accepted that not one listener (including professional and amateur musicians and young and old ears) could tell which they were hearing with any consistency or form any consistent preference.
- Mac laptop with disc drive feeding the USB slot on NDX2 versus CDI - CDI wins comfortably. Using CDS2 makes one check that it is the same recording being used. A couple of young ‘digital is digital’ listeners were surprised.
On the other hand, comparing CDS2 with streaming options, the streams win on convenience (it is over 5 feet from chair to CD player and few CDs are longer than an hour).
Visually, I’d take the olive boxes too, but those under 40 disagree.
Long-term happiness favours streaming. A CD player has moving parts and transports die (mine are on borrowed time).
So , which answer depends on which question…
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In our case…
CD5 XS → DC1 →
vs
ND5 XS2 → DC1 →
Also ( Qobuz & Roon ) + ZENmini mk3 S & LPSU
Both onwards into nDAC → HiLine →
So maybe regarded as same or similar or equal ?
It’s actually pretty close contrasting ripped versions of same CD and then CD transport playback of same CD track. I’ve always thought of this as listening to the DAC as much as anything. (As the nDAC sort of levels the playing field between these two items, when used as transports ). There is the odd track where I think I discern a difference or at least a preference for CD playback.
Having said that, would say any difference is so marginal as to be not worth much consideration or persuading anyone to chose one over another.
There is a clearer and discernible difference when you compare CD playback with Hi-Res files, streaming from Qobuz. For me, this is where streaming maybe comes in to its own, compared.
It’s a fun experiment if you care to do such things.
Happy listening
R
Edit : A further note…
We already had the CD5 XS and nDAC in our house, with a 1000+ CD collection. When we went through the above experiments, maybe 2022, the above findings - that is (1) not much difference on 16/44, and (2) Hi-Res is better - by itself - convinced us streaming was mature enough to start to make a transition.
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What happens if there is no difference sonically… like for me… your poll needs a third option. There really is NO difference on a quality setup… because actually from a digital audio perspective it is the same, and is specific implementation dependent… as indeed I find.
I have also used in the past a CDP to create rips in realtime… no discernible difference with a computer CDM ripper, although the latter is a lot quicker…
If your poll is asking about hidef over baseline 44.1/16/2 then that is potentially more interesting and there there are audible differences… or the SQ differences between different servers of the same file … which was audible with the Naim first gen streamers. (I shared my findings with Naim when they were developing the gen 2 streamers, and I was advised they had worked around those issues, I was later invited to see if I could hear a difference still on gen 2… no I couldn’t )
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When I first considered a move away from CD players a compared my CD5XS to an ND5XS and preferred the latter, but this was purely personal preference and there wasn’t much in it… So I bought an NDX instead.
Interestingly enough I chose the NDX over the DAC as I thought it was the better sounding unit when utilised in a network environment, which is how I was going to be using it.
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I changed from CDX2/XSP2 to Linn Akurate DS/Melco NAS maybe 14 yrs ago. Ripped using dB Poweramp software. Obviously, I changed. Ripped was a big improvement.
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I prefer ‘walking the line’, picking out a cd and playing it much more than cranking up a laptop and running through an endless list. Probably an age thing, being used to similar with LP’s and luxuriating in not having to turn the cd over half way through a side (double albums etc excepted!).
This also suggests no sonic improvement with digital in my system that I have noticed.
Peter
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Playing ripped CDs from the Core retains the link to ownership and browsing our shelves. Also makes browsing a whole lot easier and far more pleasurable than searching the Qobuz database for me. Once I’d broken through the psychological barrier of buying CDs which are available to stream I was pretty much back where I started - buying/owning music with the added bonus of a huge Qobuz music library to poke around in (when stuff is reviewed recommended). Can only say my Core/NDX2/XPSdr beats my previous CD5xs/Flat Cap2 (as indeed it should at the price).
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The last time I seriously compared CD with streaming, the CD player was a CD5XS used as transport into nDAC/XPS. The comparison was with albums ripped using iTunes(!) onto a headless MacMini and played via a good optical cable into the nDAC. So same DAC in both cases.
At the time my CD collection was almost exclusively classical and I found the streaming route added a bit more clarity and air to, for example, orchestral music. The difference was not huge, but it was consistent and to me streaming was preferable.
Roger
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Even putting the sonics to one side, the faff of getting the dam things out of the case sometimes, plus getting that bit of paper with song credits out, then trying to read it with 18-year-old eyes, let alone now… Yes, the Red Book standard was revolutionary for 1982, but…
But playing vinyl is not a faff. It’s almost a ceremony. Plus, of course, I can just about read the credits still.
So yes, i have voted for ripping.
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Streaming supports higher sample and bitrates, even DSD (as used with SACD’s) so given these additional factors, and the lack of error correction needed with a ripped CD, streaming will always sound better. I have heard that an SSHD sounds better than a HDD, but the humble LP still is tops.
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Doesn’t need a laptop, and a list is hardly endless, being no longer than the same number of CD case spines… But unlike physical media, a file can’t get put back in the wrong case and require a hunt to find, unlike a CD disk (and I’ve know people do that). As for age, preference, that would be an interesting exploration.
I_B Sure don’t we all just think up reasons to justify our preferences?! (Guilty as charged!!).
Peter