There was me thinking I’d cancelled Roon, but no, I’d forgotten to set auto renewal to off. It at least gave me one more comparison opportunity, which didn’t last long.
Bye Roon (for good or for now!?!) & carry on with Innuos/Sense.
Well, at least you can smile at me smugly, now that you know I went for a life subscription 
1 Like
Has this turned in to another one of those, “You won’t be happy till you’ve spent (another) 10k” sort of threads 
5 Likes
Of course not! You’re welcome to try my hair shirt for size whenever you like 
Not targeted at any individual in particular btw!
I do love the fact that high end audio is a great way of finding idle cash (for some) a purpose.
I spent a bit of time a while back helping @Nestor_Burma with some Wi-Fi related setup, I do envy those in a way that have the time and funds to do these personal experiment journeys.
A good friend of mine once said, quite wisely, “I’d hate to spend all that money (on Hi-Fi) just to listen to Dire Straits”
2 Likes
I have to agree with that last sentence.
1 Like
This is why vocabulary is so important. People writing that “sense sounds better than roon” just needlessly confounds the issue.
The Naim app has no “sound.” It just controls devices; devices whose hardware and software may well have “sound.”
“Roon” can refer to many things; its control app, it’s server (core) software, and/or its own branded hardware (Nucleus). Same with many of these other brands.
Vocabulary is important.
3 Likes
Makes absolute sense.
Sometimes people just go for what’s shorter. Others can always ask questions. Whoever it was who first innocently referred to it being Sense is following on from discussions elsewhere, and what they really mean is as you & CG point out is that its the way the new InnuOS 2.00 works and utilises the hardware, controlled using the Sense app or control panel (which is just an InnuOS front end accessed by browser).
But I don’t think there’s any need for anyone to get judgmental. The matter has been cleared up. On some threads the value judgments and jibes take up more bandwidth than the sharing of experience and tips…
2 Likes
I think I may have been guilty of saying something along these lines. Of course it should have been qualified by system/set up, which sometimes is helpfully listed in the profile. The verdict on best sound quality, using either Roon, Innuos or Naim apps, can then be viewed in the context of the various systems/options.
So yes vocabulary is important in understanding a point of view.
1 Like
I don’t really agree because a lot have found differences in sound quality when using different apps on a same device.
Michael for instance with his Nd555 can use Naim app, Roon, Mconnect, and Sense. The sound quality will vary with each app, so we can say that an app has a sound, even if indirect.
Not if all the app does is send essentially an URL to the streamer, like the Naim app does, or some other command like the Roon app sends to the Roon Core. The apps don’t have an influence because they are not doing anything that has anything to do with actual replay.
However, when using the Naim app or Roon, for instance, the streamer performs more different functions. That’s comparing different designs and implementations on the streamer, not apps.
1 Like
Exactly - completely different from comparing the sound of e.g. Asset, Minimserver and Twonky… never mind Roon
I think FR means the main software here not the remote apps themselves or I hope he does. As it has been pointed out saying the Naim app or Roon app or Sense app is meaningless. It’s the server software doing the delivery not the remote app on a phone or tablet. The Naim app doesnt do anything than direct traffic from you UPnP server software and protocol of choice direct to your streamers software it doesnt enter the sonic chain unless you using mconnect to add Qobuz older equipment that doesn’t support native streaming. You can use any UPnP controller and it would sound the same.
Personally I believe the hardware/Os is more the culprit for these changes. I recently had to do some maintenance on my Roon core as I wanted to add more memory. I had to disassemble it to find out what type I needed so was without this machine for a short while whilst I ordered it in as I didn’t want to go through the phaff of taking it apart again to add in the new memory.
So I switched Roon core to run on a different machine that runs Ubuntu that runs my Plex server. So I attached my music storage to it as I use a large Usb drive for my music directly attached and restored Roon database to it.
My normal Roon core runs Rock their own OS and is a custom built silent pc from Tranquil pc, it’s nothing special audio wise
as I have no interest in spending more money on a server than my audio kit when it sounds very good already. It does have a LPS not a silly one it’s a zerozonenone that had good reviews and didn’t break the bank, cant say it made much difference in any but it was more hassle to return it so kept it as it was doing no harm.
The machine I used as a temp was an Intel NuC but running Ubuntu and more things such as Plex. Instantly it sounded different not massively but I would say a little brighter. I didnt expect to hear a change as I never had with any other server changes so this was perplexing. Had to deal with it for a few days only on switching back after receiving ram all things switched back and returned to normal.
Now this could be difference to the hardware, the os the fact it was running more server software. It’s environment as it was in my server cupboard with all my main network switches, Nas and router and modem or the LPS on my my usual core or a combination of them all. Tbh I don’t care nor am I bothered to find out but there is definitely some difference between different routes in some circumstances . But I bet someone else would have preferred the sound of the NuC to my normal core.
4 Likes
For instance if I stream Tidal using the Naim app and using the Mconnect app, I have not the same sound through my Nds.
So ok, it’s not really the app which sounds different, but indirectly a different app on the same streamer will give different results.
Those are great examples . . . where it’s not just the app! Sure the apps are different but so are the underlying server software packages and in some cases the hardware and/or its configuration.
My cars go way faster with Mobil gasoline vs Texaco gasoline! (I always use Mobil in my Porsche and Texaco in my Honda Fit 3-cylindar.) You get the idea. . .
Us hi fi hobbyists long for “is A better than B.” But we are talking nonsense if we say we’re comparing A vs B but at the same time A is used with C and D and B is used with E and F.
If this were drug development we’d have killed off the entire forum already! 
4 Likes
Don’t start giving anyone any ideas!
3 Likes
I don’t deny that an app is related to an underlying software package. I agree with you, it’s not really the app. But you are like playing with words, if you understand what I mean.
The app is like the fuel in your car, different fuels will give different behaviours of your car, because your car is better optimised to work with a certain kind of fuel vs another.
You get the difference, but not everybody does and I have seen claims that two consecutive versions of the Naim app sounded different. I just thought it makes sense to be clear and not confuse things.
3 Likes
The signal path for both what you describe their is very different. Naim is instigating the streamer to pull directly from Tidal via the Tidal Api and play to the streamers software player via you network connection on the streamer. Mconnect is pulling tidal to the app on your phone via it’s Tidal API via wireless. Then sending it out via wireless via UPnP receive on the streamer. Not the app perse but that path to get there.