I’ll be voting against legalising in the NZ referendum, mostly due to the pathway to meth that does immeasurable damage in our community, rather than any objections to low level use that is tolerated here anyway.
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That sounds wonderful to me here in the UK. I smoked dope for well over 30 years with no ill effects - and plenty of good ones! Unfortunately I had to quit all smoking 19 years ago due to vascular problems. I’ve had the occasional doped truffle and brownie since then, which have 2 drawbacks - they take up to an hour to work and you can’t fine tune the dose, you just have to eat it and wait and see how strong or otherwise it is. With a joint you get pretty much an instant hit and can keep smoking until it feels just right.
If dope soda comes on quickly enough to fine tune the dose that would be brilliant!
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Why don’t they legalise all substances and educate people properly on the risks?
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That would be a smarter option it would also make sure you knew what you were buying. Governments think by making something illegal they fix the problem.
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Isn’t the pathway argument based on it being an illegal drug?
Were cannabis legal and retailed in a controlled fashion (as alcohol and tobacco are) surely the gateway argument disappears since users won’t be dealing with criminals who also maybe offer other drugs?
Personally I’d rather see all drugs legalised. 50 or however many years of drug prohibition doesn’t seem to have reduced usage- in the UK- if anything the usage is more widespread with even our politicians publicly admitting to the use of drugs. I’d legalise and control distribution for three reasons:
- To remove the risk of contaminated drugs / variable strength doses.
- To remove the revenue from criminal gangs who are ruining people’s lives.
- To try to control usage more effectively and allow people with addictions to more easily manage their habits and hopefully reduce the resulting crime- petty theft, prostitution etc.
Post note: For what it’s worth I rarely drink to excess, don’t smoke (haven’t for >15 years) and have no interest in taking drugs if legalised (although I will admit to having taken drugs in the distant past - >30 years ago).
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I don’t think the gateway theory stands up to scrutiny and falls down on at least three criteria. Firstly, many cannabis dealers are small scale, deal in cannabis only and often deal purely to cover the cost of their own cannabis use. It is not the case that these cannabis dealers sell a range of progressively harder and more addictive drugs. The “why don’t you try this? It’s stronger and gives a better kick” is a tabloid myth.
Secondly, many people who use cannabis, predominantly use cannabis only. They use cannabis because they enjoy the effects. They use it comparatively responsibly and without negative effects. They are not interested in other illegal drugs.
Thirdly, although many of the hundreds of thousands of cases alcohol related Ill health and deaths probably started with beer and perhaps moved on spirits, most people use alcohol responsibly. They drink beer/ wine/ whisky etc because they enjoy the drink itself and not because it is a stage in a process of ever increasing potency and addiction. I have never encountered a licensed premises trying to sell me vodka when I was buying a few bottles of beer.
Addiction is a multiple issue encompassing a vast range of environmental and interpersonal factors. Those who started off with a few joints but ultimately ended up addicted to crack cocaine or methamphetamine would most likely have experienced addiction issues in any case, due to the highly complex interface between personality and personal circumstance. The illegality of the substances used did not serve to prevent addiction.
I base my opinions on both personal teenage experimentation and a thirty year career working with persons with mental health/ addiction/ substance misuse issues. I did witness young men who appeared to have reacted adversely to using high potency ‘skunk’ cannabis. I personally believe that cannabis played a part in the issues they experienced but it was only one part of an extensive network of dysfunction. Correlation is not causation. The continued prohibition of cannabis represents a legal response to a medical/ psychological/ social problem and, in my opinion, creates more problems than it solves.
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I’m not completely convinced by the gateway argument either, but personal experience was that moving in circles where cannabis was purchased did cause me to come into contact with people who had other drugs for sale. Had the cannabis been purchased from an off-license this wouldn’t have happened. As for the tabloid ‘pusher’ trying to encourage people to try addictive drugs in the hope of ‘hooking’ them; maybe they exist outside of journalist’s imagination but I never met one.
I think you’re completely correct that some people were just going to be addicts; a couple of friends did get badly addicted to drugs, both tried to stop and ended up alcoholic and died early because of it (one through suicide, one due to damage due to years of drug/alcohol abuse).
Gateway to harder drugs? What is this, the nineteen-fifties? That’s what’s known as reefer madness. I’ve never known anyone who was into cannabis move on to harder drugs. In fact, many people I knew who did hard drugs decades ago usually eschewed weed - why spend their money on that? Also, meth, coke, heroin etc are entirely different highs than cannabis (never tried H, but did the others and couldn’t stand them). So of all the concerns about legalizing cannabis, that one is a straw argument for sure.
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Paradoxically, getting high makes me want to turn off the hifi.
I would rather listen to the music in my head.
I find a bit of weed to be a very cost effective system upgrade. 
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Dandelion?
Whatever floats your boat, if you want to smoke some dandelion be my guest but weed usually refers to cannabis.
Where we have a flat in Spain it’s legal to grow a few plants for personal use and though I’m not sure of the legalities it’s acceptable to smoke it whilst sat outside a bar so much so that if the bar owner doesn’t want it then they usually display a sign saying so.
It’s not unusual to go to bar and see young people smoking next to older people enjoying a beer or a coffee it’s all very healthy in my opinion but one thing I will say is that you almost never smell that disgusting, pungent and anti social skunk smell that you seem to smell everywhere in UK cities.
I haven’t smoked myself for over 20 years and have no strong opinion either way on it’s legalisation I will say one thing though and that is I didn’t really achieve very much all the time I was a ‘smoker’ and it wasn’t until I stopped that my life started to move forward and I’m 100% sure that I wouldn’t be in the position I’m in now if I hadn’t stopped but that’s just me I do tend to do things to the extreme I know there are many, many people who partake who are very successful.
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I did have an unfortunate experience with some bird seed that produced …
Fortunately the magistrates accepted my explanation that it did indeed come from bird seed, helped by the fact the supplier kindly put the types of seeds on the label.
These days it’s sunflower hearts only…
Lots of sunflowers growing as weeds, but a whole lot better than weed growing as weeds
So just because you don’t know anyone who has gone from taking cannabis to Heroin it doesn’t happen?
Personal experience is an excellent tool but it cannot be the whole basis for an argument on any subject I think you if you take the time to research it that you will find that there are a number of people who do and have used cannabis as a gateway drug wether they would have been an addict anyway come what may is irrelevant the fact is that after being introduced to cannabis they went on to use other much more dangerous drugs.
Is that an argument for or against the legalisation of cannabis not really no but it is a fact.
Personally I don’t find the smell of cannabis unpleasant - but I do intensely dislike the smell of tobacco smoke. For me the ban on smoking in pubs and restaurants in Britain was a wonderful introduction, no longer having to suffer the smell and put all outer clothes in the wash - something I accepted for decades as the entry price to pay to enjoy drinking alcohol in public places. In some other countries indeed people still smoke in bars etc, which I think is a pity, though I have still thoroughly enjoyed the bars I’ve visited, including non-touristy parts of Spain where indeed young and old socialised together (smoking!).
That is true in some cases though in my opinion the reason for this is not evil dealers trying to push harder stuff but the deliberate misinformation campaigns conducted over the years by various governments. Their claims about “reefer madness” etc. are so patently overblown and absurd that many people will conclude that they are also lying about heroin and cocaine etc…
When I said young people smoking I meant hashish not cigarettes as an ex smoker (10 years this year) I cannot abide cigarette smoke it’s horrible which is ironic as I smoked for 20 years.
I too do not find the smell of hashish or ordinary grass unpleasant but the smell of strong super skunk is hideous.
And yes IB it’s really heartening to see all generations socialising together in Spain in a way that does not happen here too much these days.
Pubs or bars are part of the social fabric in Spain and most of Europe still where older people who live alone can socialise together over a coffee or a glass of wine because
A. they are allowed to sit for a few hours with a single glass or cup and
B. there are still bars on most corners or streets.
There is an old lady who has had a stroke and lives opposite and each day the bar owner and or a customer go across and help her down the stairs across the road and into the bar where she has a glass or two of wine and enjoys the company.
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A complete non-sequitur Bob. A fact possibly, but facts outside of a context don’t always tell us very much. In stating that some people who initially use cannabis go on to use harder drugs merely describes a sequence of events. Proponents of the gateway theory have to establish causation. I have taken the time to research it and have yet to read any compelling research that indicates cannabis use leads to heroin or cocaine addiction. Some people who are now heroin addicts may, or may not, have previously used cannabis. That does not establish that cannabis caused, or is implicated in the progression to, heroin addiction.
And the fact that they would have become addicts anyway is in no way irrelevant. Most alcoholics started on beer and now might consume a bottle of vodka a day. Beer cannot be established as a gateway to to a dependence on vodka. Intoxication as short term relief of symptoms (stress, trauma, abuse, poor impulse control, loneliness etc, in other words- the addictive personality) causes the initial dependency, the substance used is secondary, although the substance itself eventually and frequently involves physical dependence.
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You’re far too clever for me Babaluma you lost me at non-sequitir.
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