I’ve just added a HDMI de-embedder from my Cambridge Audio CXUHD Bluray Player to the ND555. This takes the audio HDMI signal and extracts it to full resolution which I output through coaxial to the streamer, enabling me to play 24/192 Bluray files at full resolution. This works very well for music concert Blurays.
This got me interested in music only discs. I have Pink Floyd’s remaster of Animals on Bluray, so tried that - it was immense with the 24/192 LPCM playback. It was ahead of the vinyl copy and the 24/192 WAV from the Core - a little more natural and dynamic on the later.
The CXUHD will play SACD, and I believe this will send DSD to the ND555 via the de-embedded. I don’t have any SACD, so need to get some - thinking Floyd’s DSOTM and WYWH, and maybe Supertramp’s Crime of the Century and The Eagles Hotel California, all good reference material for my tastes. I’m a bit unsure of which release on some of those though - has anyone tried them? Also, some have multi-formats, so I wonder how I’d select the hi-res stereo stream (I don’t have a 5.1 or Atmos set-up). Obviously, the Bluray hi-res have option menu’s that you have to select via a TV, which isn’t an issue in my set-up.
Also, is there a noticeable difference between the hi-res Bluray editions and the SACD editions in terms of sound quality? I think most say SACD is best. Then there is the option of buying DSD downloads from Qobuz, though the range is limited.
Anyway, interested in peoples thoughts. @sacdfan etc.
The CXU will only output DSD over HDMI to a device that accepts DSD on HDMI input. Not too many devices have that facility. I use a SimAudio Moon 390 which does. I take the DSD64 audio out from my Sony 1000ES when playing SACDs. The following from CA may help:
You should also be aware that many devices that claim DSD are in fact using DOP; DSD over PCM.
I have many SACDs. In general, SACD has a higher SQ than any bit depth/sampling frequency PCM. It does vary though, as masterings, mixes can also vary. For SACD playback I use a Marantz SA10. SQ from this completely trashes DSD in to the 390 (I use the 390 as a pre with the SA 10 on the balanced inputs so I can easily compare)
If you want to fully appreciate SACD then you need a decent SACD player.
Yes, the HDMI de-embedded takes a HDMI input and will process any known digital signal and output it through coaxial, so I thought that would work. I’ll check the linked articles. Cheers.
@Mike_S
It will be interesting for you to compare, where possible SACD to Hi-Res Bluray discs sound quality wise and whether there is any difference using the same equipment.
I dont have any SACDs as I dont have a SACD player, however I do have about 150 Hi-Res Bluray discs, mostly Pure Audio Bluray discs but also regular Bluray discs with Hi-Res tracks.
They are mostly 24/96 but some are also 24/48 and 24/192 and they sound excellent.
Looking forward to hearing how you get on with the SACDs in your set up.
I’ve posted several times about my love for ripped SACDs and Blu-ray audio discs. Like Redbook CDs or records, though, they are still only as good as the original recording and mix. If those are good, the rips are sometimes mind blowing (Elton John’s classic period albums on SACD released around 2003 will change your life).
Ripping done correctly avoids any sneaky conversion to PCM or the necessity for HDMI. The process is very different for both formats and can be a bit fiddly, but totally worth it. Search for my other posts about this.
I have Cambridge Audio 751BD.
It reads SACD recorded on DVD-R with no problem, so you can try if it works on your player also. For test it’s the best. Lots of info on the net
You could also get the 50th Anniversary Bluray Audio disc of DSOTM which has a LPCM 24/192 track and do a direct comparison with the SACD when you get it.
I have the Bluray and it is very impressive in 24/192.
That will most likely be DOP output. I’m not aware that any pure DSD can be passed over coaxial. dCs for example use 2 x AES. Many will say no difference between DSD and DOP; my opinion based upon my own experience says otherwise.
I’ve done lots of comparisons between Blu Ray high res, same bit depth/sample rate streamed (i,e, not on LAN) and SACD via my SACD. SA10 SACD wins every time (although that’s using the SA10 conversion and output stage, rather than the 390’s).
Blu Rays were a fairly brief interlude; a means of providing high res content before that became available via streaming sources. I’ve got quite a number of them which I still play regularly.
As I say, a good SACD disc played locally on a good player is often the ‘best’ quality playback available, imo. It’s a shame that SACD never really caught on outside of Japan. High quality SACDs are very much still available from Japan. Indeed, the high quality SHM version of SACDs are amazing! My SHM SACD of Pat Metheny’s ‘Travels’ is exquisite.
What Bluray Player and its outputs are you using for your Bluray and SACD comparisons?
As you probably know Bluray Player digital coaxial and optical outputs are limited to only 16/48 due to copyright protection rules, so not full Hi-Res.
However, if your using a high end Bluray Players analogue outputs then this will be full high res to make a fair comparison, but I cant see the DACs and analogue audio circuits in a Bluray Player being anywhere near the sound quality of a dedicated high end SACD player like your SA10, so the hardware used is the limiting factor not the Bluray medium. @Mike_S comparisons using exactly the same equipment will be a good comparison of SACD vs Bluray, noting your comment that maybe the signal is not DSD but DOP from the HDMI output, we will have to wait and see what Mike finds out when he does the tests.
Ah, that’s not quite correct, although true as a generalisation.
I use a Sony X(?) 1000ES which has dual HDMI out; one for video and the other dedicated for audio. The audio HDMI passes all PCM (up to 24/192) along with DSD64 (the output from a SACD disc). Very few players do this; only Sony I believe. The X1000ES is no longer available, but the X800 has the same facility, chassis and drive. I bought a new one recently when on special to keep as a spare. These disc players are under threat of extinction.
Of course, you do need a DAC that has HDMI inputs that accept DSD in if SACDs are being used. My Moon 390 has this and there are others.
Thanks for the further information.
From your comparisons, as I understand it, the DACs/Audio Circuits in your SA10 give better sound quality than using the DACs/Audio circuits in your 390 because you prefer the analogue input from the SA10 into your 390 rather than the digital inputs into the 390 irrespective of DSD or PCM format.
There’s an interesting article on mojo audio, which has this to say:
‘When people claim to hear significant differences between PCM and DSD it is not the difference between the formats that they are hearing, but most often the difference in the quality of the digital remastering or the native format their specific DAC decodes. Delta-Sigma DACs decode native DSD and R-2R DACs decode native PCM.”
So, it might depend on the DAC, and I believe the DAC in the ND555 decodes native PCM. But this is well beyond my py grade. @Simon-in-Suffolk probably knows the answer.
Indeed, but I’m primarily comparing DSD64 in on the 390 vs analogue in on the 390 from my SA10. In general though, all other things being equal, disc play of whatever type on the SA10 beats streaming. Streamed SQ on the 390 is very good indeed though (using Roon with Qobuz and local files) and is 70% of my listening.
My setup is similar. The CXUHD has two HDMI outputs. The video/audio goes to the TV, and the audio goes to the HDMI de-embedded which can then pass a 24/196 LPCM to the ND555 over coaxial. The unknown is how woud it process the DSD from a SACD. And which format is more suited to the ND555.
This seems to be more complicated than simpler, though a test would, narrow things down
