Short but urgent query on Naim 135s

Apparently the star earthing in the 135s is in a less noisy position than in the 250.

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The " star" point on a 250 looks like itā€™s the speaker terminals negative.

According to some it ought to be at the negative of the 15,000uF caps. Maybe that is where it is on 135s?

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Itā€™s between the caps on the 135.

At least itā€™s consistent then.

The ultimate ā€˜Earthā€™ on a Naim system is in the Power Supply. Thatā€™s where all the earth paths lead toā€¦!

Lead toā€¦ Lead toā€¦ :crazy_face:

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Is that why they cost the earā€¦ā€¦ā€¦No Iā€™ve got to stop this and start acting my age. :innocent:

So the cheapest 135s actually for sale seem to be just over Ā£2400. There is a no-DR 300 at Central Audio for only Ā£2800 and that wonā€™t need a service for years, so is actually cheaper.

I plan to use ears as the final arbiter, but are contributors here really split down the middle on which to put between 52 and B&W 804 D3s?

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There is a dealer with if I remember correctly a dr 300 for under Ā£4K DNA audio in otley (no connection)

Thatā€™s not making it easier!

I am about to drive over and hear the 135s - unless I opt to call and buy the 300 instead.Hence the question. Adding another 1000 to get DR is just another layer of choice!

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I wasnā€™t going to say but then you mentioned the 300 :wink:

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The 135s build on the strengths of the 250. The 300 is a different beast. If you are enjoying your 250 I would imagine you would prefer the 135s sound. But hey, if you can listen to both it would be great to hear your opinion.

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Make sure that you listen to these amps with your own speakers, and also consider the effect of any future speaker upgrade you might consider. The biggest difference in all these amps in terms of their ability to drive a speaker is that between the ā€˜Oliveā€™ series (250 and 135s) and the black fronted Classic series (250.2, 300). The latter, as well as the DR models, are simply better at driving more demanding speakers. That isnā€™t to deny that subjectively, you may happen to prefer an older Olive amp, but matching it to your speakers is key.

Hi Chris, I beg to differ. On several occasions, I considered trading in our 135s for a 300 and auditioned both into a pair of PMC FACT12 speakers, which are quite demanding when it comes to the bass drivers. The 2 dealer demo 300s failed, badly, at any volume. The serviced 135s were laughably better at driving the FACT12s properly at all sensible volumes.

I never compared the 135s with a 300DR but whenever I have heard the 300 DR, it has been utterly fabulous. The 135s make music sound viscerally exciting and engaging but the 300DR is the complete Naim package, 500 series excepted.

In short, for demanding, revealing speakers like B&W 800 series, while staying with Naim power amps, Iā€™d go for the 135sā€™ better grip over a 300, especially with a 52 pre-amp, or bite the bullet and get a 300DR.

Hope this helps rather than confuses, BF

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That would be a hard to refuse price if so - I think they are asking a little more but even soā€¦

I may have been a bit wrong / misremembered. Apologies if I was / did

I donā€™t worry much about my speakers. My olive 250 drove my old Shahinians (not the easiest load) with ease, and has more recently coped just fine with my B&W 804 D3s - and the Neats and PMCs they were auditioned against at home.

My living room is only just over 6m X 4M, and the floor is bouncy. The B&Ws were irresistible but are less than 7 feet apart, so it took soem work to get them just right and itā€™s tight. . I doubt a speaker upgrade from here will work unless I move house.

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The cheapest 135s actually for sale atm Ā£2495. Servicing Ā£798 or Ā£550, plus transport.

Cheapest non-DR 300 looks to be just Ā£2795. DR unavailable for it of course.

I have been offered a listen on some options, but have also been offered a 300 that was DRā€™d shortly before they stopped doing it (+ dealer I know and no transport costs) for Ā£3800 (so far)ā€¦

Update: I have just got back a road trip ending in Islington. and plugged in the boxes. Systems were not matched exactly anywhere (I didnā€™t fancy taking my POTs-ed 52 and Supercap to dealers), so this was the real test.

To my deaf old ears, the 300DR has considerably more foot-tapping boogie than I ever heard from a non-DR 300 at various dealers , which (like a 252) never really got me going.

More surprisingly perhaps, it apparently has more PRaT than my recently serviced olive 250, even on lower-fi recordings (Another Girl Another Planet, any Zeppelin), due to significantly better/ crisper bass.

Meanwhile Jaco Pastorius and Joni on Hejira, the bass on Dance of the Cosmic Hippos and the chaps on Graceland have never sounded nearly as good in my system. Scary Monsters ditto. Fine detail is up, stereo is wider and sharper, background noise is quieter. Vocals can be made out at lower volume, but higher volume is fully rewarded and (notwithstanding room limitations) can go louder without getting messy.

Next up Baez, Callas and the Rite of Spring, then some Fripp and June Tabor.

Decided already.

Paid.

I still remember how good 135s were to my ears 20 years ago, and I am sure I would have liked them too. However, even though I have not heard 135s in my actual house, I still reckon this is the right call - itā€™s all really singing!

Many thanks to all for the help, and apologies to those who helped and now think I have got it completely wrong. To those who reckon the 135s are vastly better than a 300, my suspicion is that this may have less to do with different personal taste and more with speakers and room. Also, have 1 or 2 of you perhaps been put off by the non-DR 300 and not tried the DR version?

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For - NAP300DR - ??? (at Ā£3.8kā€¦) :astonished:

Yes. Decided I wanted it, and with no further delays, indecision or faff.

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Is that essentially the same as a 300DR? Or are there subtle differences compared to something that started life as a DR? It sounds like you got a great deal.

The 300DR mentioned above is at my local dealer. Given I like my 135s I will be resisting auditioning it.