If you wish to extend the bass response below the fundamental resonant frequencies of the room itself without adding extra processing in the main signal path (as is done by ‘room correction’ software / hardware) or having significant response peaks at the room’s resonant frequencies, then the best option for that is a sub.
DIN, with it’s common earth point, is electrically better from an electronic engineering perspective which is why I used them for the audio connections on the power amps that I designed.
Common earth point on a signal cable is a compromise for less cable use.
And keeping down bulk to make cables smaller and more manageable nothing else.
Just like common earthing on car electrics rather than have extra looms everywhere.
Individual grounds are more reliable than shared if shared goes down it takes out everything if individually grounded only that one fails.
And that’s on stuff I’ve designed and used.
Surely you know that Star Grounding is the same as Shared grounding.
It’s all for convenience and economics
It’s multi connective wiring on the cheap.
I’m not up for debate about it.
“Subs are for AV not Hi Fi IMO”.
I’ve not heard a sub in a system that has sounded right to me.
My formal training in electronic engineering disagrees with you.
My experience and qualification (BSc) in electronics would not align with your assertion here.
No issue with you having a personal view, but might be best to suggest this is your personal view rather than established, engineering or academic view.
Hint star grounds amongst other things prevent circulatory currents to be induced within the ground. This low level induction creates noise or distortion to the relative small signal. In applications like audio replay one generally want to keep this noise or distortion to a minimum.
I think the point is more to do with availability for most RCA - Din cables which many of us have to use for connecting non Naim sources to our Naim amplification are much, much rarer than RCA - RCA and the inclusion of RCA inputs on Naim components just makes it easier.
Personally If possible I always use the Din inputs on my Naim gear, also I’ve tried very expensive
(to me) Chord cables but found no huge difference above the basic Naim or Chord Chrysalis I also have a Chord Cobra again pretty inexpensive used and this is also very acceptable.
I have some sympathy but I think that input part of the preamp is so sensitive on high end performance devices (as I have recently found out with Naim when the signal relay and DIN socket needed replacing on a channel on my Nait50… as that channel had started to sound like a ‘regular’ amp rather than the magic Nait50… such is the finesse), so you would likely need separate RCA inputs to DIN inputs.
However Hiline connectors can be procured as DIN to DIN, or DIN to phono (possibly phono to phono but not sure). I use DIN to DIN and DIN to phono Hiline connectors.
We’re getting rather lost in this fight over RCA vs DIN but the OP didn’t ask about RCAs, that seems mainly to be a hobby horse one member.
The supplied DIN cable will be good enough to be going on with so concentrate on the speaker hunt, they can be long and frustrating enough without adding another variable.
Indeed, and I maintain the speakers and room (coupling) are the priority with hifi… everything else you build from there. Get that wrong and your source and amp is wasted… that’s why I think the ‘source first’ mantra has caused so much frustration and disillusionment for those coming into hifi… and why I think it’s fundamentally wrong.
From reading this thread, I conclude that most manufacturers changed fron DIN to RCA.
They, including those whose priority was SQ, must have had a reason.
Surely, star earthing negates the common earth argument.
‘Back in the day’ I do remember re-soldering a DIN connection…wouldn’t do that today, not that I have any DINs.
And there are those very high end manufacturers that focus on SQ above life style or ‘usability ease’ such as DNM that absolutely stick to DIN, and go further, they use non ferrous DIN sockets. B&O and Quad(inter Quad component) also prefer DIN for top performance.
The move to RCA was for ease of consumer plug and play… it was a usability drive where basic un balanced (single ended) connections were required for consumer AV equipment, and became popular when Japanese hifi flooded European and US markets in the 70s.
Yes there are some manufacturers that have tried their best to evolve the RCA connector and sockets to work as best they can at stereo audio frequencies… or you can use the simpler DIN which has defined characteristics. Where I can I always try and use DIN. If I have to use RCA I use specialist plugs from the likes of Eichmann, WBT or similar who have focussed on addressing some of the common shortcomings of RCA. Naim use WBT on their RCA Hilines.
In a small unbalanced signal chain you need a common ground reference point (obviously). Star earthing is a way of providing as far as possible an equipotential (common) ground.
First of all, thank you for the numerous tips and information. I didn’t want to provoke a revolt with my question either🤣. In the coming weeks I will get Dali Epicon 2, ATC SCM 40 and with good luck Phonar Veritas and Dynaudio Evoke 50 home for trial listening. I heard the ATC’s at my hi-fi dealer sample. Insane sound stage and a lot of details, but very very thin in the bass range, but he said I should listen to you at my house!! For the purpose of cabling, I have purchased a well-preserved highline from GB, which offers me more spatiality and bass compared to lavender. However, I also agree with @Skeptikal that RCA also sounds very good, in my opinion crisper and definitely louder than DIN. Thank you again for sharing your experiences.
@ThOmSoN
Thank you indeed for having the courage to agree with my findings.
It seems brainwashing and self hypnosis seems to outweigh using ears and basic electrical technology here.
Some of the nonsense from the company converted “ for convenience “ is amazing I’ve seen so many dodgy accessories and fudges that would make a fire investigator cringe but hey some are lucky.
Hope you get sorted out and enjoy the music and not get obsessed by the converted.
It doesn’t matter how you word it or try to look clever to the unqualified.
Quoting speil from the net.
The fact remains that DIN is a compromise connector always has been and is an engineers least favourite connector.
It cuts down on the amount of cable needed “ by convenience “ and makes usually complicated wiring situations easier in practicality .
But certainly not by virtue of performance.
Simply put in my experience “ I’m far from alone “ I’ve never owned Naim equipment in the past as they were Din only.
Since the choice is here these days it made the equipment more acceptable so now lives here.
Given the choice is a great advance.
Don’t ever forget that manufacturing is down to cost and the cheaper they build it the better the profit.
Don’t delude yourself because the salesmen have done a” good “ job.
It’s about listening and pleasure not being upholding to a higher force.
Delusion is the biggest illusion.
I use and prefer RCA for connecting CD within my Naim system. I wouldn’t say it’s “better”just that the sound is preferable to me.
A practical point, I can usually hear an improvement when I do my twice yearly connector clean. Very difficult to clean din sockets.
Whatever happened to Din speaker plugs, remember the flat and round pins. Does anyone out there use them?
@Mikee
Thank you for the supporting post.
Indeed yes “ great difference “ is easily observed and costs nothing to try any old RCA pair will do it doesn’t have to be fancy but yes it is more cabling.
Funny you should say that but over the years in outside broadcast and some studio work I’ve come across Din sockets that have had much wear on the old scrape clean in and out and some have been so full of crap that I’ve had have to resort to a 1mm drill bit in a pin vice to drill the crap out so the pin will go in.
Well, I never have thought of B&O as prioritising SQ. I do think that the migration to RCA pre-dated the emergence of large scale home AV.
I’ve never heard any noticeable difference betweem DIN/DIN and DIN at one end and RCA at the other.
Greatest of respect for DNM, seen them but not heard. Quad likely to change in another 200yrs or so.