Maybe the USB port on the NDX 2 is already well filtered and that could explain the sound degradation: AudioQuest suggests not to put 2 filters in series for instance, they only work in parallel.
A very quick read around and it does indeed seem that the effect of Jitterbug on the receiving DAC varies. That makes me wonder what is happening electrically…
In practical terms it means people need to try it - but it is conceivable that the effect would vary further when other alterations are made - for example if the DAC is affected by a change in ethernet cable in the feed to the renderer, then that change might alter the effect jitterbug makes!
If only manufacturers could make their DAC inputs immune, or so close as to make no difference… I have always felt Dave is pretty close, at least that is my own limited experience, and seemed to accord with its designer’s statements (at least early on - haven’t read much recent), but I find it interesting that @TiberioMagadino reported that he found Blu 2/Dave sensitive to cable, and benefits from ferrites on the cable.
I wonder about that too, but I’m no engineer. So in the end I just try and listen to any sound difference (and that’s the point after all).
I hope that my new ethernet cable will both improve the sound and prevent electrical interferences (but according to @TiberioMagadino I will be totally fine), so I will basically concentrate on the pure sonic differences that each cable makes.
If I’m not misunderstanding, @TiberioMagadino is referring to the sound quality, not to electrical noise in the case of Chord’s Blu2 DAVE
By the way I’m getting my Chord cable in a few days, I’m very curious to make a comparison with both USB and Wi-Fi. Also, I should point out that my streamer does perform quite differently when it’s been switched on for a while (as all Naim products), so it’s not easy to give a proper and “objective” opinion straight away. For instance playing the same song from the USB drive is very different, let’s say, after 2 hours: there’s more depth, punch, mids are clearer, more details are coming out. Not a small difference.
Indeed, and I recognise that - but something electrical must be happening with different cables or with ferrites, and the ferrites are a clue: they suppress RF introduced via, or through, the cable.
Are you going to experiment with ferrites?
Considering that you have a state of the art DAC, have you ever considered to give it a proper grounding too? Maybe you have already done that. On paper results should be great, but I have no idea how much of an improvement it might be. I’m curious to explore these things sooner or later.
The Hugo Original USB interface I find lacking… its SPDIF input rocks… especially when your transport is galvanically isolated like Naim streamers… in this scenario there is a tiny advantage in having only one end of the SPDIF link galvanically isolated… which is the case with a Naim streamer driving a Hugo.
I discussed my experience with USB on a 1 to 1 with its designer, Rob Watts, and he told me the weaknesses of the USB interface in the Hugo had been addressed in later models. However with his later models I have still yet to hear SPDIF bettered from a Naim streamer.
Finally there is an over simplification and perhaps confusion of RFI and EMI… On an SPDIF lead, if the quality of the coax or the transport is poor there may be common mode HF currents passing along the coax shield, in which case a choke can help.
However in my experience of more impact is any phase distortion in the transport sender’s clock, that turns the SPDIF protocol framing transitions into a FM carrier with side bands… I believe this has more coupling impact on connected DACs etc. The solution is to use quality transports with highly stable clocks. This is the same for USB (and Ethernet).
That is an interesting proposition. At present I still feel the sound is so good that nothing drives me to try anything, though one day I must either find a player that deals with poor and missing metadata better than Audirvana (which is usable, and works better than some, like Roon, and is critically complicated by being being a rather good renderer as well, or I must sort out my metadata. The trouble is, the latter threatens to rob me of the will to live…
But yes, one day when I have some time I am minded to try a few things all relating to isolation, with three separate ideas: 1) check out the Gustard U12 between Mac Mini and Dave, 2) check out ferrites on the USB cable, and 3) Try the MM on a battery supply.
#1 is zero cost as I still have it. #2 is low cost. #3 would cost a bit, not a huge amount initially, though I’d then refine if it proves beneficial, however it is more time consuming to do. I also intend to have a go at this “tune-dem” means of comparison, and this sort of comparison would be an ideal opportunity. The trouble is I don’t enjoy the tedium of assessing new things, preferring to just play music, so I lack enthusiasm to get down to it!
Then of course somewhere in the background there is a niggle that I owe it to myself to one day hear Chord’s M-Scaler, which if ever I do might change how things behave…
So, maybe, that’s why the USB port works better without the JitterBug, I didn’t know there was a galvanic isolation.
I’ve never heard of any Chord DAC unclukily, hope to listen to one sooner or later, it could be an interesting comparison.
I wonder, what would you exactly suggest?
I’m kind of happy with my sound as well, but I’m always up for improvements. Some little details might have a huge impact, so it’s worth exploring different options from time to time (e.g. I would like to try a power stabilizer as it should provide low noise levels).
So far I’ve been using JRiver, but now I would be happy to manage everything from the Naim APP. I might use JRiver only as a DLNA server (but I suspect I might end up buying a NAS).
Metadata is important, but you should focus on music without getting crazy indeed.
Interesting ideas, open a thread if you ever decide to experiment. It will be interesting to know what you might achieve, hopefully something worth it.
I see your point, certain things can be tedious. I prefer to simply enjoy music like you, but I like to listen to it properly, therefore I always make my mind up and go for experiments at some point.
Well I want to experience my NDX 2 with an XPS DR, but there are other priorities in my Hi-Fi before that…
Good luck with it all!
There are several quality streamers out there… I prefer to use Naim with their attention to detail in this area, as well as their automation, especially with the current architecture with their latest digital transport advancements but there clearly are other manufacturers.
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My Mac mini connects to Blu2 using a QED Reference USB, which has an integral ferrite jacket & electrically isolated power conductors. I used to use iFI USB cabling system (10x the price & awkward), but couldn’t tell them apart sonically. Chord says any decent USB works; Windows laptop might be better because of the error correcting Chord USB driver & battery operation.
Blu2 (mScaler) has Xilinx XC7A200T FPGA, which emits RFI around 2GHz & can affect DAVE. To mitigate, Chord suggests 2GHz Wurth ferrites at each end of dual BNC Coaxial ICs from Blu2 to DAVE. I0 sought cables that suppress RFI & went Canare. Tried others, but these were best. For completeness, I use Canare balanced ICs to my power amp (no pre necessary). I read white papers & watched videos from Benchmark Media, which explain & demonstrate why Canare cables are effective. I used my usual listening test strategy.
I also have a Linn system. Replacing Linn Silvers with Canare has no effect. Linn’s supplied balanced cables are perfect. My dealer setup Space Optimisation V2. Excellent sound. With an all Naim setup, I found Naim cables best. Its linear PSUs disliking my cottage electrics prompted change.
I hear no discernible difference between fully qualified Ethernet cables nor network switches: so it’s BJC patch leads, Connectix Cat6a round the cottage & HP switches (prefer HP to Cisco)
So my view matches @Innocent_Bystander; it’s system, environment & listener dependent. No sorcery involved - simply careful setup and personal preference.
Hope that clarifies my comments regarding Chord Electronics and cable choice.
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My Mac mini runs off an inline UPS which supplies a perfect sine wave. If it makes a difference I can’t hear it, but it protects the computer.
I prefer JRiver MC to Audirvana and have no problems with metadata. I didn’t like Roon when I tried it. I like to listen to albums rather than read what others think of them or go off on a wild goose chase following links. However, I was born in the nifty fifties with a psychedelic dad so that probably explains it.
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Out of interest, have you tried disconnecting your UPS from the mains so the MM runs on the batteries and no path to ground? (May need to disconnect any ethernet connection as well, and possibly best if Dave not on the UPS, if it is at all.)
My playing likewise is almost invariably full albums, and I disliked the same things with Roon!
But my metadata issues arise from ripping all my CDs and LPs, and buying downloads, before any awareness of the significance of metadata, and before then discovering that even sources with metadata were often inconsistent or had errors or missing info! My original streamer, ND5XS, worked perfectly just going on my file names and file structure, which are well ordered as my library store it was only after I moved away from it that the problems arose. Although I can work around it, doing so is a bit of a hassle. I tried Roon because it claimed to be able to recognise everything and fix problems, but it failed! Why, oh why can’t all library/playing software include the very simple facility to search and sort by file name and storage location? It’s not exactly difficult, and I know there are others who would love it too! But that is drifting a bit off topic.
The Mac mini is connected to UPS, but my Chord kit is connected to an Olsen power distribution unit, which is fed from a radial from my hifi-dedicated consumer unit (the Linn connects to this as well). The advantage of dedicated mains is minimal, whereas it made a significant with Naim kit - possibly SMPS vs LPS.
The Mac mini runs from the UPS battery all the time. It does not switch-in only when the power fails (I know most UPSs do this). I’ll try unplugging this afternoon to see if I can hear the effect.
I am sorry that the Jitterbug disappointed. The answer to your question has been largely given in subsequent discussion. All I can add is that I believe that the Titanis is more sophisticated than the Jitterbug.
My system goes router>Cisco>PC>USB>endpoint. The Cisco brought greater detail and scale but some sibilance and harshness. The Titanis further opened up the soudstage, gave more detail and largely removed the harshness and sibilance. Dynamics are very good. As I think mentioned elsewhere, these things are often system-dependent. The only answer is to try them for yourself. I can only make a suggestion based upon what I have heard for myself.
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Sooner or later I might consider a proper power distribution with a stabilizer. Then, who knows, I might want to upgrade my amp or speakers. There’s always a lot of room for improvement.
My computer is connected to a UPS, but I’ve never thought of such a thing (also my UPS supplies a sine wave as the one @TiberioMagadino has).
I wonder if that has to do with the ID3tag version, but I have no clue. I’ve never experienced any issues with my metadata, except with few albums. My library is neat and coherent luckily. I’ve never tried Roon, but I guess nothing can be perfect after all. A bit off topic, but surely interesting as well.
The NDX 2 is my first streamer, so I can’t really compare, I’m sure you have more experience. Last year I’ve tried a Cambridge Audio CXN v2. A good product for sure, but I think you can’t even start a comparison with the NDX 2, at least for its audio performance.
Also my dealer says that (as long as the cable is decent) and so far I would agree, at least according to my personal experience:
Why do you say that? Do you hear a difference or is it just a personal preference?
I couldn’t agree more and it’s a very objective approach:
Thanks for clarification @TiberioMagadino
Yes @Nemo, at least now I know why it doesn’t work as intended (after all there’s always a reason, it just needs to be found out). However it’s a good device in the right system and it can surely enhance the music performace. It’s also a cheap device, surely there are better ones (like the Titanis). Indeed I don’t think the JitterBug can give a sophisticated performance, maybe just a more clean and crisp one.
I think it’s good to share different approaches. If you know the different possibilities, you might end up finding the best solution for each case.
I was repeating advice from Rob Watts who designed Chord Electronics DACs (Chord Electronics is different from Chord Company who makes C-Stream). Rob tested lots of USB cables & found they were as good each other.
Undeterred I used my iFI cabling system that transformed a TEAC UD501 DAC. From Mac mini to iFI iPower is an iFI Mecury USB cable with RFI filtering. Between iPower & iFI iPurifier is a dual headed iFI Gemini USB cable with RFI filtering. The iFI iPower regenerates USB data and sends it along one leg of the Gemini, blocks the power feed from Mac mini & sends a clean very low noise power feed along the other leg. The dual legs are consolidated at the iPurifier which provides galvanic isolation and filters out EMI/RFI. The Isolator fed a USB to SPDIF convertor with accurate clocks (powered by the clean feed from iPower). Lastly I had Canare Coax from convertor to DAC.
Published measurements show iFI products work as advertised, but could I hear an improvement over a simple QED Reference USB cable? … err no.
iFI has consolidated most of this into its iUSB 3 Cabling system
You’d need the convertor to use it with a Naim DAC.
So once more I have to agree with @Innocent_Bystander - these devices are system dependent. I have no hesitation in saying iFi makes really good products, but it depends on DAC and possibly Transport - maybe other factors.
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