As described elsewhere, I have been amusing myself with various “shoot outs” between different Naim amplifier combinations.
The current battle is between an SN3/Hicap DR and a 202/200DR/NAPSC2. The SN3/Hicap DR is winning, but I will admit it is not as yet a level playing field. The SN3 is on a proper stand and has the hicap. I have an identical stand on the way (just need to pick it up) and I am planning to switch the Hicap over before making a final judgement. I have been listening to each combination for several weeks then switching and also listening to short playlists and swapping between systems (I can now do this in about a minute!). It has been great fun! Listening to my music in different systems and really hearing different things and enjoying the music more and more as a result.
My question here is at what point will my ability to notice a difference be limited by my speakers and source? Is this the furthest I can go without swapping them out? Would a 282/250 combo be too much for them etc?
And on the same theme, where do people think this becomes an issue with their set-ups?
I would say that your XS level sources are on a par with your XS level amp, and not really up to the standard of the Classic level components you are now comparing, especially the 202/200. You should be looking at using Classic level sources such as NDX2 as a minimum to hear what the amps are really able to offer.
I’m sure that’s true. I can still tell a difference as I move up the hierarchy even with these sources there was an obvious difference going from xs3 to 202/200.
Are you concerned with whether you can hear a difference with different amps - very possible as you go up amp ranges - or whether you would hear greater differences or better sound if instead you changed speakers and/or sources (or at least DACs with digital sources)? Whilst there can be exceptions, in my experience the amp generally makes the least audible difference of the three, provided there is at least adequate control over speakers if they present a difficult load.
Thanks. I’m just wondering how far my experiment could go without having to change speakers and/ or source. For example I can’t see how my source/speakers could keep up with a 500 system so I’m guessing I’d not notice a difference as I moved up the amp range. I’m just wondering what that levelling off point is.
I noticed a very big difference going from 5i to XS3 with the same speakers/source, but less if a difference (although still clear) going from xs3 to 202.
It’s not a matter of keeping up as such, rather how much difference there is between the amps. Unless the differences being compared is small you might find the it audible up to any level, potentially even up to Statement, or A.N.Other high end amp, though only so eone who has tried could say for sure. Differences as you go up the range tend to decrease anyway, the “law’ of diminishing returns.
Whether that is the bast way of upgrading your system is very different matter, though that may be of no interest to you.
For a more level playing field, could you connect the HicapDR to the 202/200DR/NAPSC2? I don’t know if the 202/200DR is a lot better than the 202/200 or closer in performance to the 202/200DR/HicapDR but my experience is the 202/200/HicapDR is noticeably better than the 202/200.
I am not familiar with your sources and B&W 705 speakers but would expect the system to reveal the differences between amps. It’s point of diminishing returns and you can’t expect significant night and day difference as people often describe. It’s usually subtle differences which can be important to the listener.
Perhaps share your impressions if you manage to listen to the 202/200DR/HicapDR/NapSC2. I assume you didn’t manage to listen to this setup as your current rack could not accommodate the additional components.
Your experiment must have been a lot of fun so far, no doubt about that. I’m glad you enjoyed the whole process whatever your conclusions might be.
I’d say yes but it also depends on your personal preference and sensitivity. The ND5 XS2 is a great source, but I can clearly hear how much better the NDX2 is with cheaper amps than the SN3. So I would personally consider it a limitation.
A long time ago I had some 600 series B&Ws and I came to the conclusion that B&W speakers put many limits in my listening experience. I found them muddy and not much detailed. Your speakers are surely better than those I had, but what I want to say is that speakers can impose their character and can eventually hide or enhance differences. So some speakers might make you perceive small differences, others big ones.
I might be wrong, but I dare say that you could even use the 282/250 and still feel a difference. In my view you just wouldn’t appreciate it entirely without changing speakers and source.
Another huge difference can be made by interconnects and other cables. You didn’t mention them, but I find them just as important, especially if you are dealing with a SN3 or better electronics.
Really thoughtful. Thanks and yes I’m having a great time playing with all the different combinations and listening to the music. None of it has been bad! Cables is a whole other ball game. Again it’s been tricky to keep a level playing field as some are powered with full fat powerlines others powerline lite. One has Naca5 the other linn k20 though I have switched that around (I like the k20!). All interconnects are the same Naim standard.
It’s not been far off. I have to switch the CD player over as it provides the ground for the amps or I get a hum. The hicap is on a powerline lite as is the 200, but the 202 and sn3 are on full fat powerlines. I think the biggest difference wil be getting it on an identical rack so I’ll make sure everything else is exactly the same when I do that.
So far the SN3 combo has a wider sound stage with better separation and clearer vocals. Interestingly on a guitar heavy track a friend and I thought the 202 was better. He actually preferred the sound of the 202 on his favourite track (airbag by Radiohead) We decided it was because it was more like the sound he was used to with less clarity and separation.
Yes. I “only” have 4 so will have to switch them all over to do it properly which will leave the CD without but I’ll use the nd5 as the source and use a lite on the CD.
All the gear you picked is good, some are just better. But they all convey the essence of music with lots of PRAT which is what matters in my opinion.
Something has to be difficult, otherwise where would the fun be? By the way it’s good if you use the same cables to compare, but one has to keep in mind that there will be limitations and better cables can make a big difference.
Interesting, I suspect that’s the HiCap DR making the magic trick here.
Take the preamp as window, and source is the ability to project the object you would like to like at.
When the window is small (lower class of preamps) the image looks flat or not doesn’t really bother how you perceive it.
But when it’s huge window wide opened (top preamps), it would show you the object is actually 2d like paper because the source isn’t up to snuff. As a result you need the good source to project a large scale, 3d, solid object to fit in the window.
In other way, even the source could project pretty solid image of the object, the window is so small and wouldn’t able to show you the full picture and ability of your source.