Source First or System Synergy?

Hi All,

I’m looking for some guidance, and, having found so much useful information on this forum, I’d value your opinions, although I know that there’s no substitute for an audition.

My journey with Naim hasn’t been very strategic. I dipped my toe in the water with a used UnitQute in 2014, and I haven’t looked back since! I will say thought that every step along the way has led to a greater enjoyment of my music collection.

I currently have NAC 152 XS, NAP 155 XS, CD5 XS (with a Flatcap XS and a NAC-N 172 XS that I’m just using for streaming, with the fixed level output feeing the preamplifier.

I’m generally very happy with the results when listening to CDs, but streaming just isn’t as good, and the old platform is frustrating at times. Although time is short, I’m tempted to take advantage of the current CD player trade-in offer to get a better streamer. I have a CD5i-2 that I’m using in a second system, which isn’t getting that much use, so it seems like a good time to act.

On the basis of my current system, the ND5 XS2 would look like the best fit, but, I’ve often thought that I’d like to get a NAC 202 or 282 with a NAP 200 in future. If I were to upgrade the amplification, would the ND5 XS2 start to show it’s limitations? If so, perhaps it would make sense to go the for the NDX 2 instead. Would there be any issues using the NDX 2 with my current system for the time being? Should I focus on the quality of the source, or the synergy between components at the same level?

Assuming the NDX 2 would be tolerant of my current amplifiers, that seems like a sensible approach, but, given I’m thinking of upgrading in the future, is that the best way to go? The cost of an NDX 2 (on offer), plus a good used NAC 202/282 and a service is within touching distance of the NSC 222. How does the streamer in the 222 compare to the NDX 2? Is the pre-amplifier section comparable to a 202 or a 282?

I know that the 222 wouldn’t be right fit for my current power amplifier (but some margin!), and that I would effectively be signing up for a future purchase of an NC NAP 250, but would that be a more solid foundation for longer term enjoyment? Sadly, I don’t see anything from the 300 or 500 range in my future (the spirit is willing, but the wallet is weak…), so the 200 range, either OC or NC, is where I think I’m going to end up.

Thanks for your help with this, and looking forward to reading your thoughts.

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Hi and welcome,

Source first is the oft quoted mantra around here, but I’m the anti-christ in that I truly think that synergy all the way through to speaker room match is crucial, and in that respect notwithstanding your streaming concerns your system is well matched.

All that said I have just taken advantage of the trade in scheme and exchanged my CDS3 for a NDX2 and I can confirm it is an utterly superb music maker. In your case the same would make sense for you if you intended to move into 282 territory. On the other the ND5XS at its price point is almost unbeatable and would fit your current system and would certainly exist very comfortably with a SN3 and indeed 282/250

Can you get to a dealer to hear a couple of options, hearing is believing!

Incidentally I can’t offer comment on the NC, never heard.

Good luck,

Lindsay

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Get a 272 and Qobuz?

Feed it with your CD player.

What speakers have you got? (Not in profile.)

Can a 272 do Qobuz?

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If budget allows then I think matching makes a lot of sense. If not then I think it makes sense to prioritise the source with lower range amplifiers.

OC vs NC is a really tricky one, but that aside I’d rather have a NDX2 and SN3/202/200 than a ND5 XS2 and 282/250. IIUC there’s a deal on the SN3/NDX2 at the moment, in addition to the CD trade-in offer.

I think if you add NC into the mix then auditioning is really important. I’ve heard the NC kit - it’s great - but I haven’t heard it back to back with a full OC system.

You could always go 222 and 250DR or 250.2. I did hear a 222&250.2 in the same session as 222/NC250 and 333/332/350, and it wasn’t too bad at all!

My opinion only, I find it hard to think the NDX2 is bettered by the streamer in the 222, but so much of it would depend on the pre you matched it with.

I also don’t think any of the options you list would be awful - which appeals to you from a pride of ownership point of view? You’ll never listen back to back after you buy, so maybe the last degree of quality one option has over the other doesn’t really matter!? :slight_smile: Shocking I know, but that was the basis I chose my turntable upgrade on in the end. There were no bad options, each option did some music better than the others, so I picked a turntable that made me smile, and is lovely to use.

Good luck deciding :slight_smile:

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I don’t think so and in these circumstances going back a generation of streamers isn’t the best plan in my view. That restricts the choice to ND5XS2, NDX2 or NSC222, which is exactly what the OP is considering.

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No, it was an odd suggestion. Forget last generation streamers if your moving forwards.

Definitely source first, but with a sensible system synergy.
For example, a Linn LP12, fully loaded latest spec, would likely sound pretty poor through a 40 year old Amstrad amp and speakers.
However, a pair of relatively low-spec and priced pair of speakers are often more than capable of showing the differences between an LP12 and a cheap, mass produced turntable, if paired with a decent enough amp.
I would say at any given price point for an entire system, it should be balanced and have synergy.
Although getting a balance, I do still believe that in the old adage “rubbish in, rubbish out”.

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Start with the end point in mind.

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I reckon an NDX2 for now is probably the best way to go. Never any issue with having the best bit of kit at the source end. Enjoy the system like that for a bit before considering the next step (pre-amp). Get in touch with your dealer and arrange a demo.

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You don’t seem to have any clear ideas of either what you want now or where you intend yo end up.

Nobody here can help you with that. You really do need to get down to a good dealer, do some listening and discuss things with them. After doing some of that I’m confident that you’ll have a much clearer picture.

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I am amongst the antichrist brigade on here. Start with the room and match speakers to the room. Then match an amp to those speakers for the volume you usually listen to. The upgrade path then becomes best source you can afford now, followed by better source when you can afford it.

From where you are now with the 15x series I found the 202/200 too small an uplift. I wished I had waited and gone straight to the 282/250.

There is always a synergy that is required though. As said a low grade source with high end amp and speakers is just as bad a high end source with low grade amp or speakers. Source is not everything in my experience but is has to be a match.

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I think your approach is very sensible and I wouldn’t worry too much about source/synergy arguments - you are not considering anything extreme (although maybe you have £30,000 speakers?). If you think that the 200 range is where you will be, then, as you suggest at the end of your posting, you first have to decide between OC or NC range.

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Think of source first as relating to time rather than priority. In a system that’s evolving over years a good source to start with is more likely to result in a satisfying system rather than one that sounds like something’s not right. In the end game aiming for synergy will likely give greater rewards.
Your system as it stands looks to be well balanced and if you had no ambition to upgrade it in future than an xs2 level streamer will fit right in, it still leaves the option to track down a used Naim DAC and a ps for it. An NDX2 might make a bit more sense considering further upgrades but the release of the NC series gives other options.

I jumped straight into streaming with an ND555 from a CDX2 and before that a CD5x. The CD5x gave good results whatever it sat on but the CDX2, though ultimately more capable, was a lot fussier and didn’t respond well to the Target rack I had at the time. It lost an irritating edge on Fraim Lite but really came on song on a full Fraim shelf. I don’t know if the streamers mirror this sensitivity.

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You haven’t mentioned your speakers at all, though getting them right for you and your room, also not mentioned) is in my view the most critical part of system building. Depending what you have that may or may not be somewhere to focus.

Source first works in terms of building a coherent system that offers the most musical understanding within a given budget, but like others have said, there are many other factors so it’s often not that simple.

Synergy between components is certainly one of them, along with speaker suitability to the room and standing waves exaggerating a frequency range, specific things about the presentation that might annoy the listener, etc. And if everything is good, poor system setup can spoil it all.

Nothing beats trying things for yourself - I’m often still wrong in what I anticipate will and won’t work.

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I believe in synergy but when upgrading source first. On that basis i would go NDX2 and your system can grow around it until you achieve synergy

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For me both nd5xs2 and ndx2 have some limitations in the dac-side at their price points being a wonderful digital source. So I suggest to ultimately think about box count, do you want 1,2 or 3 (source only). Best vfm imho is nd5xs2/ndac/psu or nd5xs2 alone. If I knew I could stretch to 555psu that would be ndx2/555 or nds/555. If I wanted lowest box count vs quality it would be 333 or 222.

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As many have said. The NDX2 would be a great upgrade. And it is upgradeable later with an extra power supply should you so wish. I think Naim learnt its lesson from the early generations so the NDX2 will be kept up to date (and the innovation rate in streaming has gone down since those early days).

I had an NDS5XS2 - not as good as a NDX2 and adding an external DAC is the only upgrade if I remember correctly. And right now there is no separate Naim DAC available. An NDX2 gives you a lot more freedom changing you amp.

The idea with source first is very simple. A lesser component high up in the hierarchy will just cause fatigue as later (better) components makes the problems audible. Dont try to match to tight - a bit of slack in the hierarchy will make for easier and more successful future upgrades. Source first works as long as music listening is the priority.

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I find it surprising that this topic isn’t discussed more frequently, but the reality is that CDs have a lifespan, and for early CDs from the 80s and 90s, that time is running out, as many have already discovered. In your situation, I recommend ripping your CD collection and placing it in a network share to play them from your streamer. It’s inevitable, resistance is futile…

The benefit of this approach is that it will free up both “Power out” connections from your FlatCap XS, allowing you to power both of the 152XS upgrades, which will significantly enhance SQ. As a former user of the 152XS/FlatCap XS combo, believe me you want to utilize both Upgrade 1 and 2 on your 152XS to get the most out of it, the difference it makes is considerable.

That would be nice, but a 152XS/FlatCap XS/155XS is a very synergistic and enjoyable combination. As the next step, I would rather invest in the best streamer you can afford. Upgrading a component in your system is likely to improve the overall sound, as it will enable the “lesser” components to sound their best; so disregard the myth about “showing its limitations.”

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