Speaker Build - CNO Grande

Just watched an interesting video on using “Heat Lock” glue to veneer cabinets. You apply it to the cabinet and the veneer then once it’s dry use a hot iron to reactivate the glue and stick the veneer to the cabinet. Looks like a relatively stress free way of doing it.

Doesn’t look like you can get it the UK though :confused:

I won’t link to it as I think he sells kits, but if you search for “speaker cabinet wood veneering” you should find it.

It’s pretty long but I found it interesting … he uses a router to trim the veneer round the edges and the driver holes!

Mark, have a play with applying your paint/sealer using a roller. I use a high density foam roller to apply my finishes. I use a satin or even Matt water based polyurethane sealer to hide imperfections. Don’t even think about trying anything gloss unless you use a professional.

The black backs on my speaker are really nice and smooth and this was done by applying 3 coats of oil based paint, then sanding smooth with an orbital and 220 grit. Then sealing with satin water based poly.

The trick with the roller is to apply to the whole surface fairly quickly, then lightly roll from top to bottom to get a nice even finish and stop before it starts to dry so it flows out and hides any lines.

If your finish will include painted surface and veneered, I have found the best way is to apply veneer first, then trim veneer, then sand surface to be painted, mask veneer, paint, then sand the veneer removing any paint that has found it’s way onto the veneer, then finish veneer as well as painted surface with clear. It gives a deeper finish to the paint.

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You can use this method with any pva wood glue. Do not use this method with non backed veneer though, it is likely to fail as the veneer is too susceptible to movement. It absorbs the glue and expands, then shrinks when you apply heat and adds tension to the veneer. Make sure you use a backed veneer as it keeps it stable. It is a good method but you have to be careful not to heat too much and you have to make sure you have plenty of glue on the surface, like 3 coats on each side.

Thanks for all the info Mark, that’s very helpful. I tried all sorts of rollers and did as you said, getting the paint on then rolling very lightly. I found the foam roller I used seemed to add more air to the paint causing a rougher finish. Maybe it wasn’t high density, will have a look for those.

What did you use to seal and prime before the black coats?

When you say don’t try gloss, is that for paint or veneer lacquer?

Thanks again,
Mark

Ah didn’t know that, thanks! Seems like a nice way to do it, no clamping etc. Sounds like you’ve tried this before?

Yep. With raw wood veneer. It failed! It cracked and then started to peel at the cracks. Heart breaking. I peeled it all off, sanded back and then re-veneered with paper backed using normal pva and pressing with panels and weights. I will only use this method now. Unless I make a veneer vacuum press one day.

Anything. You might have better luck than me but I’m staying clear of high gloss finishes. There are too many different panels and angles to get right.

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In the past I would happily have used traditional oil based gloss, brush applied to pretty much any surface, confident that I could achieve a consistent high gloss finish. Unfortunately since some of the solvents and drying agents have been banned I find it impossible to get a satisfactory finish now.
I can’t argue with the environmental arguments for banning these harmful chemicals, but it doesn’t make life easy.

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Yes I have found oil based finishes easier to apply even these days. It seems to allow more working time and flows out better. I’m not a big fan of the yellowing that happens over time with oil based finishes though.

Hi Mark, happy new year! Following the process with great interest here in East Yorkshire. You might recall at the outset I mentioned I was a trained cabinet maker, and have picked up on the concerns about the possibility of the laminated MDF panels separating and opening up the joint line, but as mark84 says with plenty of glue this should not happen as the glue actually ‘soaks’ into the surfaces somewhat and when dry the whole thing becomes ‘one’ also, if the concern you have about this is causing you to rethink the finish, which would be a shame if you had your heart set on a colour finish, back in the day the cabinet making company I worked for in Hull had concerns of a similar nature, to overcome the possibility of joints opening up (this was n the 1970’s and mdf was new to us at the time) we used a white foil (veneer) which was a plasticised material and was designed to take a lacquered finish. Something of this nature would allow you to apply an all over paint, or lacquered finish to a super smooth surface which would conceal the joined areas, unfortunately we used the material, but I personally never knew it’s technical name, or where it was bought from which I know is no help to you, but you may be able to find its modern equivalent? Looking forward to the rest of the build.

Regards, Nick.

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Sounds like a nightmare :confused:

It might be an option for certain areas that would be difficult to clamp, I’m thinking of the top of the stepped baffle for example.

Thanks,
Mark

I used to hate the gloss painting part of decorating, but that was mostly due to the clean up afterwards! The new water based paints are much nicer to work with and I find I get a decent finish … enough for interior woodwork anyway, albeit satin finishes these days.

The yellowing is a concern, I think I’ve seen some non-water based paints that are advertised as non-yellowing, don’t know how good they are though and not sure I’d want to risk it on this!

Happy New Year Nick!

Thanks, that veneer process sounds interesting, will do search and see if I can find out about it.

When I first mentioned traditional veneering I was thinking of using it as a way of dealing with the end grain of the MDF and giving a nice consistent base for painting over.
Then I thought that it might actually be nice to have a combination of paint and stained veneer to give the cabinets a bit more interest. Would need to find a natural “joint” line for that though.

Thanks,
Mark

Have you tried YouTube? There are a lot of videos.

Having lived in Victorian houses, gloss finishes are traditional and you only really get that from traditional oil based paints and I used to enjoy doing it. Now that these are unavailable I’m coming round to the fact that non-gloss interior finishes are the future, and yes, the water based stuff doesn’t yellow.

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I have started to yes … that middle one is quite painful to watch :grinning:

Watched a good one yesterday by the same guy that did the veneering one I mentioned earlier. He uses a reactive grey stain and several finishing coats to get a really nice look. He tends to waffle on a bit and the videos are quite long but I found them both very informative… plus no obnoxious titles or annoying music :grinning:

Cheers,
Mark

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Yes, for best effect, if you take a look at PMC’s top speaker you will see that they have achieved this with veneered side panels held by a vibration resisting rubber mounts, I believe, there is a YouTube video where Peter and one of his senior engineers describe it. However, if you are talking of a zero clearance between paint and veneer that is actually very easy, but you will have to ‘finesse’ your veneer positioning or cutting expertise, young man.

Zinsser Perma-White Interior Water-Based Satin 1 Litre

EXCELLENT no yellowing at all

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All the Zinsser paint I’ve used has been good, although I haven’t used that one. I wouldn’t expect any yellowing as it’s water based.

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