Speaker build - CNO4

No progess yet.

1 Like

That new speaker with the Illuminator drivers would no doubt sound great. Pricey though.

Thanks for asking how mine are going. I am extremely happy with them. The controlled bass section is absolutely brilliant. I don’t think I’d be without it now. The Seas Nextel drivers are really nice. They do take some running in though. They sounded great to start with but they have really improved with time. I honestly don’t know what I would replace these with.

Did you see this write up about the CNO25 speaker?

1 Like

I have read that previously, but thanks for linking it again. I’m still leaning towards Faital 3WC 15, but might consider these illuminators when the time comes to actually start.

This is of course the real problem with his designs, there’s no where to listen to them first / compare them. And neither will he comment on the sound relative to each other.

In that sense, I’m actually leaning towards the Faital as it’s something completely different than what you would buy in a store. But of course would swap to a slim floorstander in a heartbeat if I knew I would prefer the sound.

1 Like

I completely understand your worry, I have been in the same situation. What I can tell you is that his speakers are voiced very neutral so the differences are really in the driver quality and materials. Also the quality of the crossover components you choose. Remember that when you choose a speaker from a shop you are stuck with the treble level as it is, so if it is not to your liking you move on and listen to something else. When you build your own you can adjust that and tailor it to your ears and it will sound totally different.
IME you get what you pay for. The more the components cost, the better it sounds, e.g. more transparency, more soundstage, smoother mids. The bigger the speaker, the better the bass. Just remember those 3wc 15 are huge and you might get sick of the size over time. That’s one thing I like about mine, they are still pretty slim and don’t look too imposing. Well, less so that a speaker 45cm wide!
I believe that his speakers work really well with Naim gear, the neutrality seems to let the equipment shine. I’ve heard 4 pairs through my Atom and they all sound good.
The scan Speak drivers seem to add a little extra sparkle, if that’s the right word. They sometimes makes good recordings sound better and poor recording flatter. Whereas the Nextel drivers don’t seem to do that. They sound good with all music genres and you seem to leave nothing from your collection on the shelf.
As long as you spend what you are comfortable spending, choose a design you can live with, and within your building capability, you can’t go far wrong.

2 Likes

This is why I’m thinking of making a box or just a panel for the crossover. To have easy access for tweaking. Removing a 15" driver can’t be fun.

I had made cardboard mockups, they certainly are! As long as I get the finish to an acceptable level I should be fine size wise.

Drivers of course are the unknown here. The Nextel and Scan Speak drivers are of course used in many high end designs. Faital and 18 Sound less so.

It’s easier than you think. Just make the wires long enough so the driver can sit on the floor or a chair placed next to the speaker. The only downside is that if you use MDF then you don’t want to screw and unscrew many times or you strip the thread. Initially only nip up tight. You won’t need to go in to it that much. I’d still put the crossover inside. Just stick the resistors on the board and connect one end of all and then have a wire that you connect to the other end of one. The 15” hole will make it much easier to get an iron in. You’ll find that at first the tweeter will be quite bright and will mellow over time. Use the least resistance option you can handle (brightest in sound) and as time progresses reduce resistance as it breaks in. I’ve changed mine twice. I think it’s stopped changing it now. You can just use the recommended one and see how you go with it but I find I like it a little more mellow. Especially having hard floors.

This is where your test material comes in. I like to use something I know is on the verge of sounding too bright anyway and then make it sound just manageable. Then take something that is dark sounding and really mellow and make sure it is not too mellow that it is unlistenable. If you do that right then everything in between sounds beautiful!
I think we all know what the tracks are in our own collection.

2 Likes

@gthack yes the Ellam flex looks big fora small speakers but I doubt it would be an issue for your room. What do you mean by too much?
My concern with that speaker would be the front baffle complexity.

1 Like

Ta for bringing it here :slight_smile:

Just worried the extra LF extension might make matters worse in my room. I measured it the other day with a umik-1 and there are definitely bass issues! A planned sofa should take some of the edge off it X) The other thing is the extra physical depth brings them further into the room. It’s a bit of guesswork that speakers that go lower will not help an already troublesome room acoustic.

I’d got down to the Flex, Ellam 98 mk2, or the CNO MK-III, the psuedoscientific assumptions about bass issues pretty much ruled out the CNO, plus it’s an extra £700 odd. They could well be my last speakers though, so not completely ruled out.

To be honest though I’ve almost decided to do the Flex. The front baffle looks tricky, but looking at some pics on Troels’s site, manageable, albeit with a table saw rather than a track saw. Oh, and careful chisel work!

Another week or so of thinking might see me put the order in!

Ok sure I understand. Bass is always an issue. The adjustable bass units in my new speakers have solved all of those issues but clearly they are hard to build expensive and way too big. It’s hard to imagine that there is much difference between the flex and the 9800. What the reason for not choosing that one? Are you planning on the bass cabs eventually?

You’re right, not much difference in the bass response, well not compared to the CNO which goes a fair bit lower I think. I did want the flexibility if I moved rooms to add the TL. Though it isn’t a trivial addition, most of the crossover changes IIRC. The 3 way definitely wouldn’t fit in the current space, it’s over 400mm deep!

I sense you’re trying to save me from myself attempting that baffle!? X)

It’s not so much save you from failure as I’m sure that you would get it right if you tackle it methodically and slowly. I suppose I’m just thinking of all the factors. In particular the fact that it’s a first attempt but also that you aren’t doing the bass cabs later. I do think it is likely a really good sounding speaker as i have read Troels’s praises of it many times. At one time i wanted to make it but i would have used real wood for the front baffle and a white or black rear cab made from MDF. I will say that after building mine, the chamfers are not as difficult as i thought they would be. Although I’m not sure if that is because i have also gained more experience with woodworking.

1 Like

Cheers Mark, appreciate all the advice :slight_smile: I was thinking of a trial baffle (or two :wink: ) in plain MDF before the final choice too.

I haven’t entirely ruled out the TL bases, just that the current location won’t work. In fact a transmission line design was what got me interested in all this in the first place. I read the book below to learn about the various speaker types and some basic design principles, in the back there’s a TL design to make. The other book pictured was apparently what Julian Vereker used for the first NAP160 :wink:

2 Likes

Love the books! I’d love to have a read of those. It will be good to see the build process whichever you choose. I am going to rebuild my original Ellam xt bookshelf speaker soon. I have some maple veneer left from the other speakers so I’m going to use that. Am I correct that you are going to use paint to finish?

As I lack any artistic ability I was going to do them exactly like Troels! Bare Baltic birch ply with some wax, or other basic treatment. Baffles painted black.

Or get my kids to paint them X)

Troels has four more designs out. Two stand mounts and two floor standers, he’s been busy!

The new Illuminator-71 looks really nice, as does the Purifi-6R.

Someone needed to post to keep this thread open :wink:

Cheers,
Mark

2 Likes

Oooh, ta for heads up, particularly interested in stand mount options! Off for a look :slight_smile:

Yes they do look nice, I had been looking for a recent stand mount design on there as something to try before …

CNO Grande Build

@Mark84 I’ve made a start :grinning:

Cheers,
Mark

Yeah I have seen these new designs. I cannot believe that he has managed to make something as cheap as the PCFR, if that’s what it’s called… I almost want to make it to try it and then give it to a friend or something. Also the new purifi floorstander looks and sounds (as discribed) amazing. Those drivers look pretty quirky.

Yes that’s an amazing price really, especially given his surprise at the sound quality. Roughly £300 :open_mouth:

The purifi floor stand does look very good, and can have the benefit of the amp like your speakers.

Cheers,
Mark

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 60 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.