Yeah, I have to say it wasn’t a view I agreed with either. It might be related to the number of pretty large, high end models in the range, rather than value for money. And it’s hard to put a value on what sounds like a lot of on-hand advice from the chap himself!
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Thank you too. I’m just the other side of MK actually, so not far. It’s a very generous offer from you and n-lot, and is very much appreciated. I’d certainly not impose on you to travel, but I might make a trip over at some point… the only trouble with that might be listening to 300 series components! I was very impressed with the full setup I heard at Tom Tom Audio X)
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That’s not far at all! If you’d like to hear them with your gear let me know, we can figure something out … I know a big part of this is not being able to audition them first, it’s quite a leap of faith!
@Richard.Dane please send gthack my contact details, thanks.
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I didn’t calculate anything myself, but I guess the issue is then with the component cost itself. For example if one looks at the OSMC design above, that uses 300 Euro worth Mundorf components. (It does say you can choose to use cheaper, same value components) But even that amount, compared to what I paid…
And then there’s of course a question whether one can hear the difference in these components. Would these speakers have sounded that much worse using cheap components from the local electronics store with the same values?
I think many people complaining about the cost are having that exact thought.
Myself? I’m not convinced it makes an audible difference, but then again, having FOMO combined with in for a penny, in for a pound, did also go for the Level 1 option.
Markup, storage, shipping, marketing etc. And of course as DIY builders we don’t factor in our own time, while I’m sure someone building them for a living does.
I’m very impressed if you indeed designed these yourself. Not something I would have attempted myself.
Would it be worth starting its own thread? I’d be very interested to read about the process.
And I regularly visit Berkshire (in-laws), what a small world! (But I won’t be bringing the speakers)
A small meet-up might be fun though.
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I do not have any build pics. So ido not think I will manage to create an interestering thread.
They were finished in 2022.
If you search for “hifisentralen Helvetes Forgård side 99” on Google you will find some pictures from the Dude. Use Google translate to translate the message board from Norwegian to your language.
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@n-lot Thanks for the build thread. Glad you finally got round to posting it. I am glad to know also that I was partly your inspiration for building. I have been following Troels Gravesens web page for many many years. Since probably 2005/2006. He is the only designer that I would trust to build. I have never been disappointed with a speaker design of his. I find I can always tune it to my preference. The one thing that has changed since then is that the kits are closed and you have to buy from Jantzen to get the crossover parts list, although I completely understand why he has had to do this. I know it locks you into buying the higher end kits but you are always free to use a design of his with an open kit. There are plenty of discontinued open kits still on there.
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Definitely shout next time you’re over, very happy to drive over that way. Chieveley services FTW X) (if Berks or Oxon can’t suggest a half decent pub I’d be astounded though 
)
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Yes that’s not a lot at all, the main capacitors used for the tweeter in my crossovers are getting on for £200 (edit: pair) … he uses this level of components to get the best out of the drivers, something commercial companies would find hard to do and meet their retail price point.
There’s one way to find out!
Troels is all about the best sound quality and tests on pretty high end gear, I know nothing about phono cartridges but the Anna Diamond he uses is about 7k+ so must be pretty good!? … his workshop system is probably better than mine 
True, manufacturer and then dealer markup is probably a big chunk alongside the time… even though they do cheat by having CNC machines etc 
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Would be fun to meet up!
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You’ve got me thinking about this It would be an interesting experiment that I may just try, you only learn by doing! Probably wouldn’t go for really cheap components but I had a look at Mundorf prices and they’re about a third cheaper, wouldn’t be a particularly expensive test … other things to sort out first though!
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I’d still be interested to hear about the design process, perhaps prototypes etc. Even if there’s no pictures. Feel free to do it in this thread if you don’t want to start a new one.
But of course it’s also fine if you’d rather not.
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I’ve heard the difference. I built the SP 95 years ago and used the lower end cross caps from Jantzen and el cheapo resistors from the electronics store. I used them for years and then upgraded the crossovers to only mid level Jantzen and could notice a considerable difference in resolution. I do confess that I think it would be more difficult to pick the difference between say super Z caps and alumen z caps. I think you might need a really high quality front end for that test. I think super z caps are the sweet spot. Personally.
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@n-lot love your work, the good thing is if there’s ever any warranty issues you know where to go. 
Love to have the skill and patience you do, thanks for sharing. 
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Pretty much like all the tweaking that goes on here, speaker/mains cables, interconnects etc etc
Having the ability to try these things with speakers is interesting, for me at least. I’m learning from simple adjustments to the treble level, trying different capacitors for the treble would also be interesting, I might prefer the sound irrespective of whether they’re cheaper or more expensive… or as you say, I may not be able to tell the difference
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I played a bit with tweeter attenuation, but only the two values that came with my kit. I preferred the same value as Troels, but TBH, if I’d listened a week apart and you’d ask me to say which is which, I’m not sure I would be able to tell you with any certainty.
But as you say, playing with this is very interesting, and especially with speakers, as the nice thing about speakers is that you have two, so you can very easily AB without having to rely on auditory memory.
I think you might after listening for a while, aside from the obvious I’m noticing that reducing the treble too much seems to affect the impact/dynamics of drums and complex passages become less coherent. The latter makes sense when you think about it, I wasn’t really expecting the former though … it’s quite a delicate balancing act. I can better understand some of what Troels goes through when he’s tweaking the crossovers over a couple of months listening tests!
Measurements at listening position, in my (untreated) room. 1/12th smoothing
- Green: L
- Blue: R
- Orange: L+R
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I still need to read up more on how to properly interpret these, but I think the waterfall isn’t actually too bad other than the issues in the lower bass region.
Frequency response isn’t great below 400Hz, but my options for treatment are limited to non-existent so I guess I’ll have to live with it.
One possible option is a triangular bass trap in the corner, but as I it can’t have bigger sides than 30cm I do wonder if it will change much. Basotect would probably be my best bet.
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