Speaker Isolation Effects

I bought some Herbie’s small gliders in brass, of the type with a conical depression in the top, to go under a pair of Thiel CS1.6 when I set them up on a tiled floor in a third floor flat of concrete construction. The idea was to limit transmission of vibration to the flat below rather than improve sound quality. I’d run the Thiels spikeless, sat on cloths before installing the spikes (actually cones) and gliders. For the first week the sound turned really harsh making piano music unlistenable, then we shut the system down for a few months. When we came back for our next visit the harshness was gone, I think these Herbie’s take a while to settle in once they get some load on them.
I’ve bought a second set, this time the small titanium ones, which I used under allaes for a couple of months. This in the house we bought recently, also with tiled floors but a void under it. I didn’t notice harshness nearly as much with the allaes but it was there. I’ve now moved my NBLs on to the gliders and again played with positioning, which the gliders make easy, I’ve finalised their positions but haven’t tried chips or even coins to compare as yet. They don’t work hard against the wall in this room so I expect to lose some bass as a result but it’s not too bad for level and it’s very tuneful. I did compare titanium to brass gliders and have a slight preference for the Ti ones.

Thanks Yeti that’s interesting. I already have a set of the spike shoe gliders that you are talking about under my Quadraspire SVT rack. I went for the stainless steel one’s. The rack is on carpet over a suspended wooden floor and was previously on castors as it’s essential that I can move it to access wiring when required. The spikes/gliders were a vast improvement over the castors - which wasn’t entirely unexpected.

It’s interesting that you mention harshness. When I first fitted the spike shoe/gliders I did notice what I thought was a little hardness to the sound. I wasn’t too worried as it was only very slight and in my experience when the sound becomes much tighter due to improvements it can sometimes superficially appear a little harder. In reality what is happening is that a slight softness has been removed and the sound now snaps into focus. Whatever I no longer notice it so it’s either disappeared or I’ve just become accustomed to it.

My apologies @anon33182107 - the comment on spikes was a reply to other comments mentioning them.

I do think having wobbly speakers is not ideal, and that a paving slab or two would be a good way to experiment cheaply on fixing it. However, as the comments here show, this is a rabbit-hole down which we can go as long as we want, and it’s never as interesting as just enjoying the music. In the meantime, your comment about removing softness with Quadraspire makes sense - that’s pretty much what you would hope for.

@ditton66 - you are right of course that a lot of kit sold to improve isolation is pointless, and people on both extremes get rather passionate/ evangelical - see other threads. Fortunately, a lot of changes can be tried at little cost - whether that means a dealer posting you a trial pack for free or putting paving stones under speakers, moving speakers forward or further away from side walls, changing what supports hi-fi boxes or whatever.

For many of us, that trial does not mean getting sound meters and vibration meters to discover/ prove what is going on, but simply using your ears and deciding what you like. I think that is how most of audition hi-fi boxes too.

1 Like

No worries Nick. You’re right in that the whole thing is a rabbit hole from which it can easily take years to emerge from. And often one finds oneself pretty much back at square one - so off we go again down another more promising hole! Now that I’ve removed the Herbie’s pucks and reverted back to normal the speakers no longer wobble anywhere near as much.

The obsessive streak in me says to try slabs, or sheets of acoustic steel, or… But I feel I just can’t be bothered - I’d rather just get on with listening. I’m old enough to know that whatever I do it will never be perfect, there will always be a compromise somewhere. Also, and without any real hard evidence to support it, my gut feeling is that whatever I do will end up detracting from the overall sound of my lovely speakers. Sometimes it pays to just trust your instincts.

2 Likes

Lets have a picture of the offending speakers, here’s one off the net.

A 15” bass driver I believe, You’d expect dynamics to spare looking at them and be relieved if they don’t honk.

1 Like

Ok Pete, didn’t searched the specs. So probably more Townsend podiums, but much more expensive than the Herbies, for sure.

Many thanks for the picture Yeti, I’ve never tried posting one. Yes that’s them. The bass driver is actually a 12" but there is a passive 15" bass radiator on the back of the cabinet! Dynamics, bass slam and speed are literally bone-crushing! But they are also capable of quite surprising sweetness, refinement and delicacy when the music demands, which is perhaps something you would not necessarily expect from such a design. No typical horn honkiness at all. The presentation is very vivid, immediate and alive. Definitely a marmite speaker though, and some people would probably find them a little too much to take. Not a speaker to relax to while you sup your favourite tipple!

of course the simple solution might be to use them as is. And if you feel like the performance lacks something, just buy different speakers.

Quote: “Most floors aren’t level and on a 4 feet object there’s nearly always some wobble unless you can adjust for that.”

The dad in me says, “That’s what little packets of sugar or artificial sweetener are for, right?” :grinning:

Seriously, though, the IsoAcoustics Gaias are so good, perhaps it makes sense to try another IsoAcoustics product? They have platforms and stands, such as these:

frenchrooster,

I am intrigued by the Podiums and they certainly have excellent reviews. It would be difficult for me to get the speakers onto them but perhaps not impossible. But that price - it’s just too much. Also I suspect now, after trying the Herbie’s, that any form of isolation is likely to impinge on these speaker’s performance in a way that I find unacceptable, despite gaining in some areas.

1 Like

Quite so!

How much do the Klipsch Forte III weigh? You could try Isoacoustics Isopuc (9kg weight capacity per unit) or Isopuc 76 (18kg weight capacity per unit). These are the cheapest footers from Isoacoustics that might bring a positive difference.

The problem here is that the whole upper surface of the isopucs needs to be in contact with a flat surface for them to work properly. Not possible with the Klipsch’s as although from the picture it looks like the base/stand is a solid wooden slab it is in fact a ‘frame’ around the edge of the speaker underside.

I use Finite Elemente cerabases under the speakers. They can be used with screws or not.
The Slimline version should work for the Klipsh Forte 3. The cerabases have transformed my speakers.

image

1 Like

Looking at that image of the klipsch speakers I would be more inclined to not deviate much from the design.
Some hardwood battens either side or front and back fitted to length. Will give some air and would be straightforward to fit.
Maybe have some marble or granite thick battens made.

1 Like

frenchrooster,

Yes I could certainly try these but again my concern now is that they may have a negative impact on my speakers despite bringing improvements in some areas. Having now experienced what the Herbie’s pucks did has made me very wary.

It’s strange because as soon as I listened after installing the Herbie’s my initial immediate reaction was negative. What struck me most was a reduction in transient slam and bass weight. Then as I continued to listen I began hearing benefits - cleaner sound, more control, more low level detail etc. These were obvious and clear improvements. But something just didn’t feel right. It was as though the personality of the speakers had subtly changed. Now having removed them the sound is back to normal and much better overall, as though the speakers had been off-colour and were now well again!

I honestly think that, unlike most speakers, these are best used as supplied, without any additional isolation. No doubt the wooden support base provides some isolation as the actual speaker cabinet is not in contact with the floor. The speakers are clearly voiced to be used as such. Naturally some interaction with the floor will occur and will no doubt vary according to floor type. But this will almost always be the case, even with efficient isolation accessories.

Having tried one solution this is now exactly my thinking. Leave well alone.

Ok i understand, but in that case why not name the thread « Herbie gilders under speakers, share your experience ? » , if you understand what I mean….but I am sure you will :grin:

Well I could but really the whole point of this thread was for me to get some feedback from others on the effects of isolation accessories under speakers. Hence the thread name. It is not really about Herbie’s gliders at all. I wanted others to post their experiences on the sonic effects they had experienced so as to compare notes. Strangely despite some good discussions absolutely no-one has done this! :frowning_face:

The full Townsend podiums aren’t cheap (what is in this mad hobby!) but are very good VFM IMV. They can accommodate heavier speakers (mine are ~60kg each), with the corner cells being differently sprung/rated, and I think they can be had sale or return?

Due to their profile, you cannot use with a wall boundary speaker i.e. the podiums will bring the speaker away from the wall by ~100mm (perhaps less) but they can solve some room issues.

It’s quite easy to get a speaker on them e.g. just establish where the speaker needs to go, position the podium as required with the cells springs wound tight, walk the speaker on to the podium plinth, and then undo the cells at each corner and level via the springs.

So long as you don’t try and adjust the speakers too much with the cells released, you should be OK. I managed to lock-up a cell (I think I forgot to lock it down and it was replaced for free).

1 Like