I would always upgrade the source before the speakers. The extra performance (especially frequency extension) can have a big effect on your choice of speaker, and on the way they interact with your room.
If you find your perfect speakers now, you may even find that they don’t work well with your room acoustics after a source upgrade.
2 Likes
NOt sure that a different source would extend the frequency range beyond ND5XS2???
The source-first dogma is not shared by everyone, and I am one of those who has the opposite view. Provided that the source is reasonably decent (and even the entry level Naim streamer is), then I firmly believe it is better to get the speakers right first, as that brings greater satisfaction immediately and you know that source improvements will simply shine through, bringing greater clarity and realism etc. I have never had speakers made to sound bad through a source improvement - if speakers are made to sound bad through a source improvement they were simply poorly chosen speakers in the first place.
Occasionally the computer data term “garbage in garbage out” is trotted out in support of the source first argument - but that is a wholly inappropriate expression in this argument: Whichever component makes garbage of the music that is all that will be heard, not just relating to source. More particularly, provided the source is half decent, although it may not give as much detail etc, isn’t producing garbage (and of all sources this is certainly true of digital source today), whereas a poor speaker can make garbage of any signal, distorting it, adding noise from resonances, falsely curtailing some frequencies etc.
All chains are only as good as their weakest link - whether in hifi that be source or speaker (or amp). Ideally all links should be as strong as each other (with a perfectly balanced system), but in the real world for anyone having a future goal towards which they are progressing with upgrades it is a more rapid route to the end goal and lower overall cost if things are upgraded separately, inevitably shifting out of balance. The question then comes down to what sounds better, and to me the answer is unquestionably getting the character of the system to sound as good as it can, which is fundamentally down to the speakers because they have the biggest single effect on sound character - all provided that the source is reasonable and the amp capable of sufficient control to avoid unpleasant wallowy bass.
7 Likes
If this were my system, I’d certainly upgrade the DAC (before or after or instead of speakers being the OP’s choice of course), so I am with you there.
I am also with you on the ‘weakest link’ argument in principle.
I even agree that the basic character of what you hear is most directly and dramatically changed by speakers changes and how they interact with the room. However, I am not sure that the biggest character changes are always the same as the biggest SQ improvements - to me, those are often found further up the chain.
Other ears…
2 Likes
Try sticking an NDAC on it and see what happens to the bass extension.
2 Likes
I haven’t suggested that sound character and sound quality are the same, so we don’t disagree on that either (!) - however SQ improvements could be anywhere in the chain, though I agree the source is a key factor. How much the speakers influence sound quality depends on what aspects of sound quality the listener appreciates most, and in turn that may depend on the type of music they play, some being far more demanding of speakers than others. My point about sound character is that inherently it is a fundamental contributor to enjoyment of music played on the system, in many cases more so than, say, absolute clarity.
Also affecting sound quality, but all too often ignored, is the room, which can often limit clarity (e.g. due to muddying effects of early reflections), frequency response (e.g. due to standing waves, and timing due to decay time - but that is another subject!
1 Like
Good luck @Gazza19 on your speaker quest. You are very fortunate to be able to demo different speakers. I think all three are good choices. As for the source upgrade, in streaming I just don’t see/hear that much of a difference. I have 2 home systems, one upstairs and one downstairs. My upstairs unit is a McIntosh with tubes. I have a price appropriate turntable for that system and planned on using vinyl most of the time. I bought a LUMIN t2 steamer just in case. Well I use the streamer 98% of the time. For my ears it is nearly as good as the turntable at half the cost. Now when I changed speakers downstairs, big difference in the sound to my ears. Plus steamer technology changes so fast, today’s model is obsolete in 5 years, speakers not so much.
1 Like
That’s my only gripe with digital audio, DAC and streamer especially the high cost ones £2k or higher. I was looking at the Lumin U1 mini about 2 years ago and then the U2 mini is now out. Although it’s the entry model, it’s not exactly cheap.
I bought all my DACs used or New-old-stock (NOS) with MSRP £4k to 5k, actual price paid around £2k only. The Lumin U2 mini is on my radar but I’m still hesitating.
Stupid question perhaps, but what speakers in the OP’s price range are actually available to audition from dealers they are willing to travel to? Surely that narrows it down considerably… and perhaps puts other options on the table not considered.
When I auditioned speakers I didn’t have many to try so I listened to the ones available. They were big Kef r11, Spendor classic 2/3 and D9, and a few I don’t remember. The ones mentioned above probably caught my attention more than the others or were in cost range. The D9 most certainly got my attention and were, with the classic 2/3 the ones I home demoed. The D9 stayed and to this day I can get in awe of how good they are. To me, really special speakers.
One caveat could be your source though. I have an NDS/555DR and a Gold Note Mediterraneo/PH10 and don’t really know anything about the ND5. Could be you’ll end up with one of the famed mullets if you get this level of speaker with that source 
I am finding that an issue. The dealers that I’m prepared to travel to only usually have one of the 4 or 5 speakers that I want to listen to so I can’t make any comparisons.
I have taken on board the numerous suggestions that the streamer will need upgrading.
So, got a good deal from my usual dealer on a p/ex to an NDX2 so that is happening first.
The pressure is off then on upgrading the speakers, I can take my time, (and save the funds), in finding the right speaker. The Kudos Titan 505 is top of the list to audition, hope it doesn’t disappoint as aesthetically they would suit my room.
4 Likes
Kudos do make very nice speakers.
I have the T606s, which I believe are the floorstander version of the T505.
I can report that I am extremely happy with them.
DG…
On the other hand it might sound very good with the source you have. I have never heard it so can’t really comment. Try before you buy
Hi Gazza,
A very wise decision to go for the NDX2 first.
The speakers on your shortlist are all potentially good options but don’t set your heart on one particular favourite just yet, as they must work with your room.
Back in the day, I was looking to upgrade from a lovely pair of Proac standmounts. Over the course of many, many months I tried pretty much every 5 star rated speaker in the market within the price range that you are looking at but none of them worked in our living room. We either had sluggish bass boom (most of them) or sucked out bass (Wilson Benesch). It wasn’t down to poor speaker design but the fiendish issue of speaker-room interaction. We eventually found the right pair for our room (the current ART Alnico 8.3) but I don’t necessarily recommend them for you without an audition.
The risk with an 18 by 12 room is that the better speakers may go too deep and excite similar room modes for you, though I sincerely hope not. Our room is 21 by 12.
Hence, you may well find that a speaker that goes less deep e.g. the Proac D30 will work better in your room than the D40 for this very reason. I’m an admirer of both. The ATC SCM40 is also a benchmark at the price.
Finally, if the bass does sound a bit slow, bloated or indistinct, ask your dealer to demo them with a pair of Townshend Podiums under them, or Isoacoustic Gaias / Herbie’s Gliders if funds are more restricted. These devices have cleaned up bass boom while achieving musical improvements across the spectrum for many, many forum members. There are many threads about these speaker isolation devices.
Hope this helps a bit and enjoy the auditions.
Best regards, BF
4 Likes
Much appreciate all the good advise Bluesfan
Good advice. I couldn’t agree more. In my case, the Isoacoustics Gaia cured the unnatural boomy midbass of my newly acquired Graham LS5/9 which was sticking out like a sore thumb. I have the Gaias on another pair of speakers so I am familiar with the potential benefits that they might bring. In the end, all my speakers now have Gaias installed on them. The Isoacoustics Gaia is the poor man’s Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums and may not be sonically as effective. Nevertheless, they do deliver up to a certain point. Highly recommended.
1 Like
When I was upgrading my PMC 20.26’s recently I auditioned the Fact 12’s fully expecting to be blown away with them. The 26’s were my third pair of PMC’s. However I found the Kudos Titan 707’s superior in every way and ended up with them. My system, ears and room etc etc.
1 Like
I am a very very happy owner of a pair of Spendor 9.2. I can’t say how happy I am with them. I always say this is the only component in my system that is untouchable. I wish you’ll be able to have a listen.
Seems that Naim owners like PMC, ProAC, Spendors and even B&Ws.
I am a massive fan of Wilson Benesch but I am not currently using Naim electronics!