Iām another one thatās concluded the EE8ās SMPS is difficult to beat. At the last count Iād tried at least seven LPSās from a few hundred pounds to a couple of thousand and am more than happy with the standard supply.
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Fascinating how there are two very different camps of response to LPSs on the EE8 - strongly pro and strongly contra.
It shows how there is a semi random or highly unpredictable SQ result from the installation of āaudio specialisedā products in the digital network chain.
Probably depends in large part on the local electrical environment of the user.
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@Mike-B @ChrisSU thank you both, so I have no choice other than finding an old AM radio. However no obsession in my case, just a bit of curiosity.
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Donāt forget confirmation bias. Thatās probably a big influence as well.
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An interesting observation and is similar to what my dealers reports. He has great success with many tweaks on the small systems with things like power supplies, galvanic isolation devices like the EE1 etc. but says that on the bigger systems these seem to have less of an impact (sometimes a negative impact). Which is something Iād guess youād expect as on the big systems youād hope they have already resolved a lot of these issues.
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The observation of your dealer doesnāt cope with most users with high end systems, be it here or elsewhere ( WBF), because quite a lot of these users have audiophile switches with linear ps , Innuos PhoenixNetā¦, Anzus switches with some isolation devicesā¦ā¦high quality power cords on big linear psā¦.and so on.
Other have audiophile media fiber converters with high quality linear ps.
I donāt contradict the fact that some prefer stock SMPS however, but itās rarely the case with big systems.
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Thanks - good to know and has saved me a lot of laborious experimentation, not to mention cash!
As Iām sure we all know by now Chord maintain that only SMPSās are fast enough here. And they arenāt the only manufacturer to say this.
Melco however provide a LPS with their upmarket switch and the combination seems to be very highly regarded.
So what to make of this? Surely the answer is that there is no right or wrong as regards LPSās vs. SMPSās. It depends on the specific application and implementation. And they arenāt inter-changeable willy- nilly. It all depends.
Also Chord do say that they have paid particular attention to the noise filtering on their SMPS, and that this is critical to achieving correct performance.
You know what? Maybe, just maybe, theyāre absolutely right!
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I really didnāt want to start a āā¦my LPS is better than your SMPSā¦ā or āā¦my stock SMPS is better than any LPSā¦ā battle of words when I opened this thread.
It seems folk have fallen into one of the above camps and are standing their ground.
What I have learnt from fiddling with network devices and cables is the results of network tweaks are totally system and environment dependent. Some things have worked for me, like the Farad Super3 on my EtherREGEN, other things havenāt, like some Ethernet cables. Some things have not worked in some systems but have worked in others, like the AudioQuest Vodka streaming cable.
One thing I suggest you donāt do is listen to someone who says this device/tweak/cable didnāt work for them and immediately assume it wonāt work for you, or it did work for them and assume it will work for you. The only way is to try things out for yourself in your system in your home. There are devices that can be borrowed from dealers and returned if not a success. Alternatively items can be picked up from the usual online auction sites at relatively little cost and moved on with little or no loss if they donāt work for you.
Mind you it is far less work to take othersā opinions about network tweaks as gospel.
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Youāre entitled to your beliefs and prferences but this is not an empirical or statistical statement.
My own experiments and purchases have led me to very strongly believe that the critical key element in achieving musical results with digital streaming systems is the reduction of noise. This really is critical - and I canāt emphasise it enough.
Noise seems to completely destroy the music. It negatively impacts on speed, timing, pitch rendition and musical coherence. That has been my experience anyway. All my present efforts are towards reducing noise as much as possible - and it really is paying huge dividends here.
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See the profile of most 552/500 or Statements users here, and you will see. The same in WBF for example. But yes, itās very probably not enough to conclude on some empirical statement.
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That doesnāt support your claim. How do you know they prefer? Did they try all options? Did they blind test? No, you donāt know that or any other details behind their choices. Not to mention the lack of statistically relevant sample size. Youāre making claims that canāt be supported with any real data or experience. Which is fine. Lots of that here.
Jim, this was what Iām concluding from both this thread and the many on use of mains conditioning. It would be interesting to see if those who are seeing benefits from LPS are also using and hearing positive results from the use of conditioners.
Iām using a Puritan conditioner and Iād say itās great and definitely product a positive impact. Iām about to try and LPS as well. So weāll see.
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We donāt need to make a rigorous statistical study, blind tests and othersā¦.
I am just reading that forum regularly and see what users with Nd555 , S1, 552ā¦have as network optimisation. They all use audiophile switches with external or internal lps ( as the PhoenixNet).
The same for users with DCS Vivaldi, MSB Select and top streamers elsewhere.
Is it representative of all users in the world with high end systems : absolutely not, I havenāt said that. But there are many. It says something.
I have yet to find someone with an Nd555 or top streamer with a cheap Ethernet switch.
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Is it āallā or āsome/manyā?
Iāve limited expertise here and neither switches nor SMPS on my network because as yet Iāv heard no huge problems and nor has anyone else. However, what I have heard is other peopleās systems where a simple change to a SMPS on the router did indeed provide a noticeable change (admittedly not always an uplift) and so I struggle to equate that with āallā.
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My understanding is that when we fiddle with and tweak our networks with various devices and cables, we are more shaping the noise that inevitably exists. Yes, we may reduce that noise to a degree but it can never be eradicated.
So we either like the noise-shaping effect a tweak delivers, or we may find it counter-productive. I would further suggest that a particular tweak may produce differing noise-shaping effects with different connected devices and different environments.
I say the above from a speculative point of view, rather than a statement of fact. It would however explain why various forumites get differing results when trying out the āsameā tweak.
Not all SMPSs are bad, not all LPSs are good and not all noise is (sounds) bad.
@Simon-in-Suffolk can explain the phenomenon of noise-shaping better than I.
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Actually to make the claims youāre making you do need to do all that. Youāre making universal claims based on anecdote. Youāll be a better advocate by sticking to your personal experiences instead of projecting those experiences onto others which is obviously false. Based on your posts you have a less than optimal listening environment and youāre not using a full Naim system so naturally your experience is likely to be divergent from others with different listening environments, mains, components, networks, etc. And then of course thereās personal preferences that are highly subjective. On and on.
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You are absolutely right, Nino bonito. I wonāt argument more, waste of energyā¦
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My understanding is that - at least with the Chord devices that I have, they are aimed at attempting to eliminate noise in various ways, depending on the device. Of course nothing can be 100% effective here - presumably anyway. And apparently the different devices target slightly different frequencies.
My own experience has been that adding more devices significantly improves musical performance, presumably because more noise is being eliminated. I can only speak for the Chord devices, which is all I have tried, and with my system.
I think the LPs vs SMPS thing is a different kettle of fish. Noise plays a part Iām sure, but Iām sure as well that itās to do with speed and the fact that different PSās, whether LPSās or SMPSās just all sound different. Some work better than others in some systems and with some bits of kit. Hence you takes your choiceā¦
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Good summaryā¦ indeed not all noise is necessarily badā¦ nor distortions.look at how popular certain valve amp designs are, as well vinyl playback. Ultra low distortion doesnāt automatically yield an attractive sounding hifi system, as became evident in the 80s and early 90s when ultra low distortion was the in vogue with much hifi. Shaping noise is a broad term, but essentially you are refocusing the frequency spectrum of where majority of the noise power resides.
You can work to minimise and reduce noise that you canāt otherwise control, however is some systems, noise is an inevitable consequence of the some of the system functions. One can then try to shift this noise into areas where it is not so noticeable or can be used to positively tune a system such as Naim does within parts of their digital products
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