Agreed on an ears first approach.
The NAP is further down the line in my thought process for system evolution, you make a good point which relates back to amp PSU where my current thinking is leaning towards adding a Supercap DR to the SN3 then this being used for potential 282 or 252 preamp migration steps later down the line.
My reasoning gives me a longer term maxed out system going through to 252/250 + Supercap and NDX2 + 555PS
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I didn’t notice that the OP asked about Musical Fidelity – I thought he was pretty clear about what he wanted to know. The clue is in the thread title… TROLL ALERT?!
I really don’t know what is so much disliking you…: it is obvious to anyone I’m only summarizing the information of all the thread I started and that has been brought up by this one, avoiding the effort of reading it to the OP.
On the other hand, I can’t see what’s wrong with recognizing, from the informed experience, the limitations of Naim’s range of integrated amplifiers, something that other manufacturers, including Musical Fidelity, have perfectly assumed and resolved.
But, anyway, you can stick with your mumbo jumbo and child’s kick until you get bored…
hear we go again!
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As the OP I’m more than happy to hear from others experiences relative to the topic. That includes good and bad, opinions and experience that challenge my own preconceived ideas.
My understanding of your own experience was that you were working from existing speakers and attempting to match a suitable Naim based system to them. I’m happy that you found an outcome that ultimately worked for you even if it meant building out a system using other manufacturers products.
Sometimes points of view can run hot and appear as being a derailment of the context of a thread but my feeling is on this occasion the reference to your own thread was well meaning and within the context of someone adding a NAP to a Supernait.
I’m happy to hear your views and welcome comments and suggestions from all forum members.
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Yes, some don’t get tired of sowing winds, what boredom!
Thank you, @Mr.M. I understood that so and that was really the intention. I celebrate my experience can contribute to you.
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Bit of drama never hurts as long as it doesn’t boil over in to finger wagging and fanboy obsession. I’m a lover of Naim kit myself but I also have kit from a number of other vendors and in reality often end up listening to them more than I do my precious Naim system in my home office which is now being squatted in by my wife working from home!
She’s been very complimentary of the new system and the improvements it has brought to her day so a happy ending of sorts, hopefully easing the path to my lucrative aspirational upgrade planning that’s taking shape.
I’m still on the fence regards the NAP and a good point was made by @ChrisSU relative to the ability of the NAP 200 to both work with a Supernait and power a NAC 282 meaning the need for a HiCap or ideally as I’d factored for, a Supercap, goes away in the mid term of my evolution plan and could make for a simpler and more cost efficient migration to a NAC/NAP system.
What I’m not clear on is the relative merits of that approach in the longer term. The concensus would appear to be that it’s better to stick to the original plan of adding a PSU to the NAIT that is suitable for it initially but also a solid choice for a 282 or even a 252 to follow later on and base the NAP strategy on a NAP 250 and bypass the benefits of the 200 having the ability to power the 282 on the basis of it being sonically inferior to the 250.
So to that end, I’m still looking for opinion from anyone who has added a NAP 200 to a Supernait and if they stuck with it or if they migrated to a NAC 282 + NAP 200 and felt that pre/power combination was a good path forwards.
I’ve not got a clear and up to date point of reference with respect to either the NAP 200 or NAP 250. I don’t have any close friends with systems built around one of those NAP’s or a dealer that has one in their demo pool that can be plumbed in for a quick A/B assessment.
My dealer is accommodating so I may look and see if he can set something up that gives me a chance to at least compare those options and have a more tangible point of reference to build a decision around.
For now at least I’m reliant on the forum community to give insight of their own experiences with SN + NAP to help refine that step of the system evolution journey.
My main focus remains on the source which is the NDX2 and not likely to change any time soon. I’m unlikely to move to an ND555 any time soon but do feel that waiting out and prioritising adding in a 555PS first is the right approach.
Beyond that, it may be that this gives me all I need in a 3 box system with some refinements on top by adding in a Super Lumina DIN IC.
I don’t think SL Speaker cables will make a lot of sense unless at that point I’m in position to improve my speakers, for now I’m sticking with the PMC’s until such point as I feel they are becoming a bottleneck and replacing them will help refine things further.
If I had a focus on speaker changes I’d be looking at Focal Kanta 1’s or 2’s and also would like to give Kudos and ATC a serious evaluation at some point.
The main limiting factor once the system gets to the planned level of refinement I have in mind will be the listening environment. I do have some options and could relocate to another room which is a TV/den room and swap systems around but that isn’t optimal and having it stay in my home office is really the best overall location and where I put the effort in to optimise it in including a dedicated mains spur and putting in a new floor.
The discovery and planning continues…
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Fascinating thread. I have the exact questions as you but swap the Supernait3 for a XS2. The manuals seem to imply a NAP200 is an upgrade for both integrates for Power
I guess the bottom line here and in my head is just how good can you get with a low footprint system.
I’m well aware of what is achievable when you migrate from a NAIT based system to a NAC/NAP system however as I’ve recently invested and prioritised my source moving from an ND5 XS 2 to a NDX2, it’s made me realise the importance of refining the source as much as is possible whilst being mindful to the constraints of the system it forms a part of.
I did make a leap of faith earlier this year from a SN2 to a SN3 which was a change that in many respects wasn’t really necessary but it has meant that I’ve ended up with a system that gives a sum of the parts far more capable and enjoyable in a two box setup than what it replaced with the previous 3 box system.
I think that’s why I’ve begun to focus primarily on adding a 555PS as the next step and from there replacing the current Hi-Line DIN IC with a SL DIN IC as a final refinement to a 3 box system.
I’ve always been curious if adding a NAP to a Supernait was a realistic endgame system choice. There are some forum members who have this system and feel it does give improvements, I’d say broadly that the view in doing so would be that the Supernait preamp then becomes the limiting factor in the performance of the system as a whole and it is best placed as a intermediary step towards adding in a NAC and removing the NAIT entirely.
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Hi @newcomer.
Your are completely correct regarding an open mind. I have been following the “Vitus integrated amp v 552/500” thread. It has a been roller coaster ride and I’m not brave to post this bad joke on that thread.
I’m also a bit, late replying but the open mind part is important. I remember the original “Flat Earth” magazine and the Flat earthers obsession with source first. Genius marketing really as the idea mean’t if you had a £1500 budget Linn could get the first £1000.
But IMO it also seems to work, not 2/3 source but you have to have a good signal that’s worth amplifying then listening to, just like Naims pre-amps, you always need balance.
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I’ve certainly had no regrets so far replacing my ND5 XS2 with an NDX2, paired with the SN3 its proving to be a very capable and enjoyable listen and giving more than would ever have been possible with the system it replaced which in itself was pretty decent, the focus on optimising the source is now standing out as a sensible priority for next steps.
All comments welcome anyway and we all have our own preferences and likes.
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For myself no matter which way I choose to go, if I make any change it’ll likely be intermediary. The so-called slippery slope.
On the original thread you were attempting to run a SuperNait with the ProAc K6 speakers and as I recall some members from the very beginning stated that the SuperNait would not work and that you should go with separates.
You found something that works with your ProAc K6’s (something I would not mind having) and I appreciate that you found a solution to work with your K6’s.
My point, if I have one, is sometimes your critique of your experience is restating facts that a some members mentioned would not be a good experience because of the mismatch from the very start.
You found a way to balance your system with the priority being on speakers. I believe others, perhaps like myself, often are just looking to discuss how different Naim components work together in the same system.
I also think that after working from home for the past three plus months the break from normalcy has me going a bit looney. …but that is a topic for another thread.
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Yes, that really is my point: there are many roads leading to Rome.
I would have liked to get the Naim amplification right, but my priority was the speakers set to a complicated room, and the simplicity of a system that did not end up dominating the whole room, which is also dedicated to other functions. I have found the perfect balance in my system, and in my needs, with a Naim source up to the height and an amplification up to the height and in a single box, which unfortunately could not be Naim.
We all like a happy ending, on that I’m sure we can agree!
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Yes, but I recognized so in the same thread, and I accepted their reasons courtly, and my mistake. Currently, I am more than satisfied and happy with my main system, which only lacks some speaker cables at the height of the rest (surely TQ Silver Diamond shortly). From there, I understand that it is the Naim forum and that people prefer to discuss how different Naim components work together in the same system, but to be always circling the same thing, often in that intolerant manner, is very tiryng, and speaks quite badly of the stubbornness of some, always trying to impose themselves on the experience of others, and often with little foundation beyond the tantrum. It is neither mature nor constructive.
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The OP has pmc speakers.
You have completely different speakers that need a “beast” (in your words) of an amp to drive them.
You state you are disappointed naim do not have a high power integrated in their range (I presume to power your speakers - not the OPs pmc)
I have just read the thread and I’m not sure how this has helped answer the OPs question.
Do you mean pmc speakers need more current than a naim 250 can offer ?
I think it was just a point of reference towards the beginning of this thread, I’ve already acknowledged this and moved on.
I have PMC OB1i speakers currently and they’ll stay for the foreseeable.
I don’t currently find the power amp section lacking on my SN3, I struggle to get the volume up beyond about 10:00 on the volume pot and most of the time it’s down around 08:00 - 09:00 and even that is adequate realistically.
What may be improved is greater instrument seperation and transparency and a more extended/fuller bottom end, I’m certainly pretty happy with the SN3 as is overall and happy with moving to it from a SN2.
There are a few folks who have a system including a SN + NAP and seem to find it works well enough but you wouldn’t do it necessarily as an end game addition in the main, exceptions apply as always. I’d expect it to be primarily a means to an end and intermediary step to add a NAC without having to swap out the NAIT for a NAC + NAP all at the same time, spreading the hit, so to speak.
I’m now thinking to max out the source first and foremost and add a 555PS ideally and then possibly a SL DIN IC, but may not need it at that point, I’d like to try anyway and give it a try for a longer period of time.
That gets me to a source optimised 3 box system and may in fact be all I really need, beyond that I’d factored in a Supercap DR to again max out the NAIT and open up the options to eventually swap in a NAP 250 then finally either a NAC 282 or if luck comes my way a NAC 252, how many of those steps I actually attain is still TBD. Ideally I’m hoping the 3 boxes and some cabling tweaks will scratch the itch enough.
I once had PMC twenty.21s, driven by a SuperUniti. I then stuck a 250DR up them and they were like a new pair of speakers. While the SN3 is a better amplifier than the SU, the OBs must be more of a handful than the 21s. I suspect it won’t be long before a 282/250 arrives. Or why not go for a 300!! Or a Musical Fidelity…