Supernait 3 - Bookshelf Speakers 2.5k budget

If it were me I’d sort the source out first, using whichever speaker the dealer recommends. With just the Node it will be much harder to work out which speakers are preferred as the source will be the limit with all of them. Alternatively, use an NDX2, the natural bedfellow of the SN3, and pick your favourite three speakers. Then sort out the source and take it and the three favourite speakers home. Remember too that it’s essential that all the speakers are fully run in. In these odd times that is probably easier than done.

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Great advice from all, much appreciated!

Call me sceptical but I’m wary of ‘salespeople’. Do they have my best interests at heart or their numbers?

The only theory I have so far is that when I bought the SN3 it was running Dynaudio Evoke 50s and I did think how suited they are to my needs with regards to their top end. I was there for a good 1.5 hours and at no point did I think they were starting to ring my ears.

Based on that, I think I pick similar tweeters from the range I’ve listed. Then maybe throw something in completely different to see if my theory is correct. That may exclude some other speakers on the list instantly. But then again it could include other speakers I’ve not even listed.

I remember what my old Monitor Audios sounded like and I absolutely can’t make the same mistake twice. I also remember what my XTZ speakers (home theatre granted) sounded like and I’m certainly twice bitten at this point.

I also remember my mates B&Ws and that was an awful experience whenever I went to visit (RIP Dave - no offence meant). I also remember some Mission speakers from my work experience days and they were also just awful!

That reminds me, I blame my high school for all this due to spending two weeks in a specialist hifi shop for work experience. I’d be rich by now if it wasn’t for that.

I agree with @anon4489532 - use an NDX2 as the source to audition speakers. Otherwise you might end up with the speaker that works best with the limitations of the Node. Very likely not the best choice in the long(er) run.

I would also keep an eye on the speaker cables and power cords used during the demo. No exotic or crazy expensive stuff. Preferably standard Naim leads, maybe Power-Lines and the NACA5 as proven standards with Naim kit.

Also note that stands have a considerable effect on the SQ and presentation of bookshelves/monitors. A stand that works well with speaker A doesn’t necessarily work well with speaker B. In particular with both Dynaudio and ‘thin wall’ BBC-ish designs like the Spendor and Harbeth in the mix.

They have targets to reach, yes, but that doesn’t stop them wanting to do their best for you.

I was in sales /dealing direct for around thirty years. Long term relationships are vital in high value sales.

What you are doing with such a long list is making it difficult for the salesman.

A good salesman will also tell you if you are wrong -( as happened to me yesterday ) and why .

Though to be fair, I think audio suffers from too many dealers who spend more attention to what is coming from their one mouth than listening with two ears to their customer

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So, it turns out even though Audio T list most of those speakers, they don’t actually have any stock unless I want to do an 8 hour drive.

I’ve found a selection of differnet dealers that have a combination of those on my list, however, this is far from ideal. I’ve asked about home demos and all I get is a reply asking me to visit store first to see if I like the speakers I am interested in. I seem to be working much harder than the salepeople I am talking to, I’m pretty sure this should be the other way round. :slight_smile:

Had a real good think last night and even though there are lots of speakers out there that I would love to listen to maybe this just isn’t feasable. I audiotined my Supernait 3 on Dynaudio Evoke 50 and I loved the sound - maybe I just got really lucky and found my prefered sound by mistake. Maybe some of the other speakers would sound even better to my ears, maybe if I keep saying maybe I’ll still be using my Q Acoustics 3030i this time next year.

I can’t reach the Evoke 50 price, but I can just about stretch to the Evoke 30’s. I’ve been reading about Dynaudio and they appear to have one of the better audio laboratories and as a Science bloke myself I do believe in that type of R&D. I’ve also been reading more about the Special 40s and whilst they get glowing results there is quite a big debate on that forum I was told not to visit - it appears from the experts there is a major flaw with the Special 40, which I’m not going to get into on here. I don’t believe the Evoke range suffers from the same flaw and from what I have been reading the Evoke uses a different technology which I can’t find any bad words about.

Yes, so I started with a budget of 2.5k and asked for Bookshelves. I seem to be going down a 3k Floorstander route now. Again, my only concern is the wall behind the rear ported speakers - but I can bung this if needed.

So my conclusion to all this;

I’d like to demo Evoke 30 and it’s closest sealed or front ported rival at home. Am I going to be better suited to any of the rivals with regards to the tweeter that I found so beautiful on the Evoke 50 though?

So, anyone with memorable demos like to share which speakers are similar to Evoke 50 but cheaper? I presume if I enjoyed the Evoke 50 so much I would also enjoy the Evoke 30.

@chrisgtl I went through a similar demo journey about 9 months ago, including many of the speakers on your list, plus various amps and digital sources.

My only advice would be to break this into a number of different sessions as otherwise there is too much to take in and mental fatigue will set in. Also worth taking a friend or partner along if you’ve got a willing participant as it’s helpful to have someone else to talk through what you’re both hearing. Can help with overcoming some of the confirmation bias that can otherwise creep in.

Enjoy - it’s a lot fun :slight_smile:

Link to my experience and findings: Recommendations for bookshelf speakers with an Atom

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This new and improved 3k speaker budget (including stands if bookshelves) has limited my DAC spend.

I’ve owned a Mojo previously and wish I’d never sold it with regards to my IEMs so I’d probaly have a shot at the Chord Qutest. The Qutest has all the connectivity I’d want. I don’t see the point in buying something that has features such as headphone out which I’d never use. More to go wrong and more to take away from its sole-purpose.

I found that the most difficult is to choose the right speakers/ amp combo, in a particular room.
Before I bought my existing speakers, I took me some months to listen to different brands.
I listened to JM Reynaud, BW, Dynaudio, Spendor, and Proac, Sonus Faber. Finally bought Apertura. So listened to 7 speakers.

The most important thing is to be able to get your favoured two or three speakers at home together, and that demoing at different dealers can make that hard. That’s what I did when I chose between ATC SCM 11s and ProAc Tablette 10 Signatures. They were both good but the ATCs just looked horribly big and brown in our room in a way they didn’t at the shop.

For what it’s worth, I’m not convinced upping the speaker budget at the expense of the source budget is a good idea, but I’ve probably flogged that horse enough. Do bear in mind though that you can pick up some amazing bargains in used speakers, which depreciate really fast.

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With £3k I would try neat Ekstra versus maybe spendor a4 (a7 at a stretch) and then buy the 1 I preferred.

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It may be difficult at the mo, Covid an’ all but perhaps take your time to listen to speakers with the same source each time, in the different dealers that have them. Then narrow down to the ones you want to demo at home before final selection.

@Oxbow - Thank you linking me up with your story. Just finished reading it and found it quite wonderful.

I am going to try demo two pairs at home first and go from there. I think I go down the source route once I’ve sorted the speakers out. I’m in no rush to make any descsions, and certainly not the wrong one at the expense of time.

I agree that source is important. But taking into consideration my long experience with IEMs which don’t suffer from any environment effects like loudspeakers I am yet to experience any mind blowing changes between my DAP/DAC/Headphones Amps when spending £200 to £3,000.

DACs/DAPs/Headpnone Amps I’ve owned are;

Chord Mojo
Luxury and Precision W2
Sony ZX507
Astell & Kern SE200
Luxury Precision P6 Pro
Cayin C9
Dragonfly Red

Yes, all different in various ways but subtle differences. When changing IEMs the difference is night and day. I found it best to find an IEM that suited my needs the best and then match that to the DAC.

I’d say IEM gave me 80% difference and DACs/DAPs/Amps 20% difference. Maybe not even that. Possibly more like 85%/15%.

The biggest single difference was the Cayin C9 when switching between valve and solid state output - this is the equivlent to my Naim Supernait 3 though which isn’t going anywhere.

The only difference I can see here is IEMs are easy to drive, whereas speakers aren’t so.

I’m done with the whole scratching my beard whilst trying to analyise every note of every song. I want a system that I can enjoy and relax to now. That’s what its all about at the end of the day. As I get older my priorities are enjoying over tweaking.

Last night I was watching some YouTube audiophile channel, and the guy proceeded to tell us all that using Fibre from his network switch over CAT6 makes a massive difference to his streaming sound. I mean, where does this stop? Dedicated fibre connection direct to my streamer from the streaming servers with my own isolated generator in the garden supplying clean electricity whilst sitting in a dark room as not to introduce any noise.

Unless anyone can tell me otherwise I’m going to bias my budget towards the 80%-85% differences.

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I’d say that’s the wrong balance, just keep an open mind. A £5,500 streamer, a £6,000 record player land a Naim tuner, all through £1,500 speakers works for me, and I certainly wouldn’t do it the other way round.

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I agree with HH above with Nd5xs2, supernait 3 into £1300 dynaudio evoke 10. Works well with a full and rhythmic sound

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Interesting. What other streamers and record players did you use?

I fully agree (and echo’d) the better source advice from several members and that auditioning & selecting speakers with the Node is probably not the best idea.

On speakers though… I must say that during almost 40 years in this hobby I’ve never been ‘lucky’ enough to get truly satisfactory results with relatively cheap speakers on an expensive/much better front-end nor the other way around. If forced to choose, I’d take the better source - cheaper speakers route too but that doesn’t mean you have optimal performance. Because you simply don’t imo.

Visualised, a tip-up pyramid (cheap source, expensive speakers) is almost as undesirable as tip-down pyramid imo. It’s all about balanced performance, say somewhat rectangular in this analogy. Hope this makes sense as I always feel a bit crippled among native English speakers. :relieved:

I agree. With a budget that doesn’t spread to the best of everything then a balance must be struck. Do the speakers work in the room is the key point. After that, does the amp give the best of the speakers, then does the source allow the amp and speakers to display the music to its best possible within the budget. There is always a variation within the central area of acceptability.

There are many who seem to prefer Special 40 over Contour 20/20i but this was not your case? They are both fabulous speakers for their size. Some say that S40 is a bit more fun and lively while the Contour is more neutral but with better extension, especially bass extension.

Dynaudio always seems to impress in terms of their balance, driver cohesion, and range, especially for the size of the stand-mount speakers. In the Evoke range, the 20 seems to be the least enjoyed from everything I have read. The Evoke 30 seems to be the sweet spot, but for the same price, the Special 40 is the better speaker. I dare say the 40 has been their single best selling speaker of all time and it has a tremendous fan base. The Heritage Special being the upgrade of choice for those S40 owners who can afford it and want more of everything. The Evoke 50 also has many admirers but requires a large space to sing. If space is an issues, you will want to stick with Evoke 30 or Special 40. If you want to fill a larger room with sound, especially one with higher ceilings, the Evoke 50 would be better. Although for the price, you should also consider a used pair of Contour 30.

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Do think about how close to the wall your speakers need to be. Rear ported ones need some space, and while you can bung the ports to some extent, it changes the sound in a way that’s not always good. Front ported speakers are less of a challenge here, and you can get away with close to wall placement with something like the PMC twentyfive.21i, which are transmission line loaded and very nice too.

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