Hello everyone! That’s my first topic at the forum:)
My system is this: Naim Nd5 --XS2-Supernait 3 +HiCap DR - -Harbeth P3esr - and 12m room.
After switching through a couple of settings, I’ve ended up with Naim gear, mainly because I’ve found it gives the most natural sound to my taste, not so ‘audiophile’ (slow somehow) as some other I’ve had, but more realistic and present. Harbeths were chosen after testing just a few others speakers some years ago - before I’ve had Revolver Music 1 speakers which were very good for it’s price, and I’d say just the bass, which was tighter was better than in Harbeths. Now I moved to the other flat, and wondering what would be the next step at improving the sound, I’m still missing some control over the bass, maybe some high tones could be slightly emphasized too. Thinking about either changing streamer to NDX2 or speakers- but not sure which would be the right choice for the room size. Should I consider Harbeth 7es3 (aren’t they too big?) or 30..or maybe try something different, like Neat for a change? (haven’t heard them yet). However I wouldn’t resign with that midrange and ease of listening. The money to spend is around 3k, I’d rather go for a second hand. The cables I’m using are Albedo monolith (silver) - RCA is far better than standard Naim DIN cable. I had to adopt the room a bit as the acoustic was terrible, lots of reflections, even when talking. Any advices will be very appriciated. My instinct tells me:) that Harbeth 30 would be the optimal choice but maybe I’m wrong, and should consider some other option to go. Attaching some photos of the room.
At least from the perspective of the photos it seems that the room is relatively narrow and long with the sofa at the long end of the room - have you tried listening from a closer distance e.g. somewhere in the middle of the room?
@Norbert77 i stared out my Naim journey with the SN3 and ND5XS2, but with different speakers. Moving to an NDX2 with an SPSDr gave a significant upgrade. In a former lifetime with other than Naim I had both the small Harbeths and the larger ones. My room, like yours, is narrow. I found the larger Harbeth speakers needed more distance between them than my room could accommodate. I would keep the smaller ones and upgrade the streamer.
I think you may be surprised with your current speakers when you upgrade the source first.
The standard pairing with a SN3 & HC-DR is the NDX2 & XPS-DR, so with a bare ND5-XS2 you’re a few levels too low for system balance, so “over-amped” or “under-sourced” as it were.
(for the same preloved budget personally I’d rather have a NDX2 with a XS3 than a ND5-XS2 with a SN3, but you have budget to upgrade the source for your SN3, so…)
You could add a used nDAC & DC-1 to the ND5-XS2, and probably even upgrade the nDAC with a XPS-DR within your budget. Or move to a used NDX2 first for a lesser but simplified upgrade, do XPS-DR later, and still have the option for a nDAC in between, many choices forward.
The sources should really be fine with the supplied DIN>DIN lavender IC, if a silver RCA cable sounds necessary then I would suspect an imbalance somewhere else, source or other cables.
If you don’t have NACA5 speaker cables yet, these could altogether help clearly establish the new standard Naim baseline to evaluate your current and possibly different speakers.
I have P3ESR and a Nait 50, I think you have a really good system , the only thing I would look at would be Naim Power Line or better still two Naim Power Line
I’ve just measured the room and it’s 3x4.6m so actually it’s almost 14m;) (I don’t know where 12m came from;) I moved column a bit forward and the bass seems to be tighter now and overall balance seemes to improve, I’ll check it properly later in the evening but that would be a cheap and easy upgrate. Can’t go with it too far though, as there is an access to the door on the left side.
Ok, it looks like I can rather hold on with changing speakers, which is good;) Yes, I didn’t consider that bigger speakers besides the bigger sound might be just too close to each other. The photo shows as current Harbeths p3 very tiny, but in real they look right and not that small.
I’ll be considering now switching to NDX2 (that’s around ~1.5k cost of replacing second hand gear). When psyhologicaly overcome the barrier of spending such money for its supply than will do the move, but not soon;) even though I know it will make the difference. But it’s ‘just’ a power supply! Isn’t it? Probably will buy those power chords as suggested, have some decent one connected to SN and it do the job - when plugged directly to the socket. When plugged to some rather basic power strip, it made sound worse. But still streamer and HiCap are plugged to it, so maybe I should replace power strip at some point too. I’m happy with RCA and speaker cables, sounding much better than some other decent ones I’ve had before (can’t remember now what that was) but even if some others would be better in some way I would’t go this way at that time.
I’ve read that again and understand more aproprietly I suppose. So what you are saying is that nDAC would improve even NDX2. Hmm in that case it’s reasonable to add this first (as PeakMan says). Either way, upgrade of the source is the way to go. The cables will be added somewhere in between the process. Thank you all the advices, very nice forum I need to say.
If I interpret correctly, you are looking for a more extended treble or perhaps brighter and livelier sound. If that is the case, it will depend on your expectations. The P3ESR and C7ES3 have a smooth and safe treble, some people including me find the treble response to be slightly rolled off and lack sparkle. Ditto the M30 series. FWIW the original M30 has the warmest sound with severe roll-off in the treble. If you are looking for a balanced sound with an airy and extended treble, forget about the M30. The 30.1 and 30.2 have a more sparkly treble than the original 30.
You may try the brightest sounding amp or cable with the P3ESR but chances are the sound won’t change much especially the treble as it’s tuned by the designer to sound that way.
If you are able to experiment, try placing the speakers on the long wall and listen in near-field. In small rooms I often find speakers to sound better when placed along the long wall with more space from the side walls (>0.5m). I also prefer speakers to be placed further apart from each other.
Norbert, my recommendation to you, don’t spend any money just yet to buy anything.
I too have the p3esr with a Nait50 and they produce a wonderful sound, and for your room I wouldn’t buy a bigger speaker, 14m² are perfectly fine for this standmount.
Play a little bit with re-positioning the speakers and/or your sitting position. Try also placing the speakers in the long wall and see how you get on with the result.
Experiment… it’s a trial & error method, after you’ve tried all the placement combinations and you are still unhappy with the result, only then think about changing a component in your system.
Based on my own test / experience with different systems, long wall ..if possible…is definitively better
Keep a min on 30 cm behind your sofa / rear wall
More a less the same from back of the speakers / front wall.
Ratio speakers distance / listening position comprise between 1.0 to 1.6 will give you a very good soundstage with enough focus. Tow in a bit could also be used for fine tuning to your own listening preference, room frequencies.
Yes, I need to seat further, around 1m off the back wall, that gives best sound, so mostly …I’m sitting on the floor:) Than the tweeter is too high…so I’ve tilted the stands down on the spikes:) Still not optimal but I do what I can to compromise.
Thanks Ris, that’s what I am actually going to do. I forgot somehow how important that setting is, I’ve just put speakers so they look right, also thought that I can’t move them more forward, because of access to the door but it looks I still can. And just that quick move causes that clarity and blance, especially bass improved. I’ll do the proper check and find the best spot, I just must be in the right mood to do so and well rested, my hearing improves significantly than;)
Long wall is no option here, I’ve tried it once and the room looks odd and not functional. The good thing is, that this wall on the left has been added a few years ago, to make 2 rooms of 1, so if I decide to stay in this flat for good, I can make one big 25m saloon:) And that’s going to be game changer. But it’s not the case at the moment, and for now I’m just getting the most from what I have. Thank you for the advices, as mentioned above I’ve forgot somehow about aspect of setting the speakers:), will play with it but just a quick move fwd brought already some positive changes.
Guys, I’ve found good spot, acually a bit further, but not too far, an my system have never sound like today:)) The best sound I have heard. Listening Pet Shop Boys now like I can properly understand and appriciate that music evetually. Lots of colours, great rytm, great balance of tones, just pleasure to listen like never before:)) Happy bunny
Probably will buy those power chords as suggested, have some decent one connected to SN and it do the job - when plugged directly to the socket. When plugged to some rather basic power strip, it made sound worse. But still streamer and HiCap are plugged to it, so maybe I should replace power strip at some point too. I’m happy with RCA and speaker cables, sounding much better than some other decent ones I’ve had before (can’t remember now what that was) but even if some others would be better in some way I would’t go this way at that time.
