Supernait 3 upgrade path

[stevot]

Been giving it some thought in lockdown and in the absence of live music :
282/HC + 250DR (wary of a SC since that could lead to a temptation of a 252 etc etc!)
Better source (streaming from NAS and Qobuz using Roon)…
Speakers, possibly
In a family room so that would do me I think

The 250 sounds like a no brainer from everything I hear here. Need dealers to be able to reopen for the others really

[stevot]

What are the symptoms of speakers that are hard to drive and not having an amp that can do it? I’ve often wondered but realised I don’t actually know. They sound great at low and medium volume, but if I turn it up to much beyond 10 o’clock then the sound loses that wonderful cohesion So I only do this for the odd track (say Rammstein) when I really feel the need . I’ve been putting this down to poor room acoustics…

[Mike_S]

@stevot

They sound great at low and medium volume, but if I turn it up to much beyond 10 o’clock then the sound loses that wonderful cohesion

I suspect that’s probably the limitation of the source being exposed by adequate amplification.

[popeye]

Looking at the speaker specs they aren’t overly sensitive at 84db but they are a nominal 8 ohm load so I maybe wrong.
Someone else maybe able to advise a bit better.

[Mark84]

It’s not that your speaker is hard to drive, there are just limitations to what a small speaker can reproduce before you hear distortion.

The larger the cone membrane area, the more air it can move without a struggle.

Obviously they are nice speakers and i can see that you have a sub, but remember that the one driver is still trying to deliver 30-40 hz bass whilst delivering clean midrange and it has its limits…

[anon45975783]

Having owned an NDX2 with an XPSDR and an ND5XS2, the latter beats the former with a Qutest (if you like the sound of Chord DACs). As a source, @stevot, an ND5XS2 and a Qutest is a really smart choice as you have a top digital transport with a world class DAC. The NDX2 cannot match this, even with an external PSU…to my ears!

[trickydickie]

To my ears an original NDX trounces a Qutest if you value music over Hifi.

The Qutest clearly shows how a Naim DAC could improve, it’s more resolving for sure but it’s listening to the Naim source that keeps my attention and enjoyment.

It reminds me of TV’s that are set in demonstration mode in shops like Currys, they are there to impress but very trying to use for any period of time.

[anon45975783]

I could, and have, bought into that idea but I like ‘resolving’ (if I think I understand what you mean by that). The Chord DACs are so expressive and have such clarity, which for me makes the music (and I value music over HiFi). If you suggest that a Qutest clearly shows how a Naim DAC could improve, I wonder what it is you’re listening to in your NDX?

I suppose it depends what you want and what you like. Naim must be doing something to please me as the signal is being sent through a smorgasbord of Naim equipment! But the current streamer sources really feel, and sound, like a case of badge over value.

[trickydickie]

It wasn’t my NDX but a friend who has both. We compared NDX and NDX/555 vs the Chord. NDX was the source to the Chord.

I agree that the Chord DAC is more resolving but if you don’t enjoy listening to it then what’s the point. It was a pretty revealing system (282/SuperCap/300/Kudos C10) but to my ears the Naim source presented the music in a more meaningful way that kept my attention.

I can see why people like the Chord DAC, it’s forensic retrieval of detail can be appealing to some. The owner uses it for TV sound and it works really well for this.

I used to have an NDX but now have an NDS/555 DR which gives the best of both worlds!

[Svetty]

@anon45975783

Having owned an NDX2 with an XPSDR and an ND5XS2, the latter beats the former with a Qutest (if you like the sound of Chord DACs). The Qutest is a far superior DAC to that which you’ll find in all 3 Naim streamers, which are off the shelf, and, in my view, has the greatest impact on the sound signature. As a source, @stevot, an ND5XS2 and a Qutest is a really smart choice as you have a top digital transport with a world class DAC. The NDX2 cannot match this, even with an external PSU…to my ears!

@anon45975783

Never heard an NDS/555 but I can imagine it sounds wonderful. If I could turn back the clock I would’ve demoed a used NDS before buying my NDX2…

[stevot]

Thanks for the comments. I do like the sound of the Chord DAC so some things to think about there.

[Huxleyaston]

With the 282, one Hicap, two or the super cap? Anyone have experience on listening to all these?

[robert_h]

Ooh that’s been discussed a lot.

In Praise of HI CAP x 2

With all these lockdown rules I got bit bored and drag down my spare HI CAP to try out on my Nac 282 Nap 250 dr, dual HI CAPS . I had tried this before a few years ago but I had larger speakers with more bass and if was not a good match and dismissed this as no no.Well with 1 or 2 people on the community going for large floor standing speakers to smaller stand mounted ones there is a first impression all is good but what I found is for low bass larger speakers win out.My Russell K 100s are a lov…

2 x Hicap on 282

Hi Jack, I was interested to see your comments regarding a supercap as like me you have a 282/200 combo. I bought a hicap second hand when I still had a 202, and it works very well with the 282. What sort of degree of uplift is the supercap over the hicap with 282/200. For my next upgrade I had not considered going supercap first but rather a 250 or even 300. Andy

non-DR Supercap vs HiCaps with NAC 282

There are similar threads I know, as well as 1 vs 2 HICAPS on a NAC 282, but when I got the NAC 282 I envisaged a Supercap DR next, then a move to NAC 252. Would a reasonably priced (and how much?) secondhand non-DR Supercap beat 2 olive HICAPs? I believe a Supecap can also be upgraded to DR specs.

[Huxleyaston]

Really useful thanks👍

[nps]

A 250DR would be your next logical upgrade, then you would replace the Supernait with a NAC282 when you’re ready to upgrade again.

[Huxleyaston]

I picked up a 250 DR, 282 and another HicapDR to go with my other to power the 282.

Wow what a difference.

[anon4489532]

With a 282/250 costing over £9,000 and a Supernait 3 costing £3,500, you’d rather hope there would be a difference.

[krautnaimie]

Hi @all around here!

Thanks for Posting this Video, roda! It is very helpful.

I’ve had a SN3 since Summer 20 and have added a HC DR quickly after some weeks. I am very happy with the Setup. It shows far more musicality and clearness than my old Musical Fidelity 308.

Maybe in some years I will continue the “electronic Lego” You guys here have loads of more experience than I have in Naim gear. Maybe you could answer some questions for me?

1. What gives a better improvement? Adding a pre amp oder adding a power amp first?

2. How good is the power amp section of the SN3 compared to NAP 250 DR and 300 DR?

Thanks for your advices and stay healthy!

Greetings from Germany
Mike

[popeye]

Pre amps generally worth doing before power amps.
A better Pre will generally unleash more of the music and add extra clarity and openness. Providing the source is up to the job and why most follow the source first philosophy.

The Supernait amp section, as good as it is, is not a comparison for a 250 or above.
The 250 has so much more control of the speakers and grips them extremely well this is very noticeable with big transient changes within the music. In turn the music is much more free from the speakers and not stuck to them.

Best

Popeye

[krautnaimie]

Thanks, Popeye!

So it should be a 282 or 252?

If I would buy a used one, how old could it be (without recapping)?