Wow, I certainly couldn’t go that way now having gone the opposite, Supernait2/NDX2, HicapDR to 282/250DR
For me the 282/250DR has added a huge amount of dynamics and certainly more realism. Soundstage is massive by comparison and made the speakers seem like they have doubled in size with staggering amounts of grip and control.
I was using the Supernait2/NDX2 on a full Fraim with Powerlines and SL interconnect also so maybe these on the 282/250 have had a bearing but for me it has to be the sweet spot in Naims lineup.
And that’s completely understandable - I don’t have your room, setup or ears. Personally I’ve come to the conclusion that if I get 95% of the sound of the premium Naim separates but with more bang and fun (and a lot less money) then I’m more than content. It’s taken me a lot of time to realise this.
When I had the former I was questioning the cables, my speakers, whether I needed a 300, whether I had to have a full fat Fraim etc etc., and so it goes. I’ve an addictive personality and it can manifest itself negatively; I was focusing on constant upgrades or changes and it wasn’t healthy. To reset and go with the music has been a real refresh. And I have enough spare cash to revamp the bathroom.
In the interests of full disclosure, I also don’t have that much hifi know-how. You probably have the ears to appreciate the subtle changes that changing systems offers. I like listening to Live at Reading at notch 11 and getting the Naim sound to move me; I don’t have the ability to analyse different sound qualities (I’m not sure I even know what ‘bright’ means with regards to sound, for example) and so I was getting frustrated with myself more than enjoying the music.
That’s me - you could almost say that the higher end bits were wasted on me! I totally get the upgrade path, I just would be lying if I said I could fully appreciate it.
I hesitate to use descriptives like “massive” and “staggering” (and rereading my post I realise I said
(eek!) “blown away”). Slap me, lol…but I agree @popeye, I did find the 282 gave significantly more, much as I liked the SN3…had to buy another Fraim level tho, grrr
I think I have wool ears too, @anon95106626, and couldn’t describe hi-fi qualities if you paid me, beyond the bleedin’ obvious… don’t think golden ears are necessary honestly - we all do hear differently and love what we love. Vive le difference!
My end of trail will be adding the 250DR though - I simply can’t afford to even think of 500 level. Nor do I really want to, if I’m honest.
@mickdale I think (though you haven’t updated your profile) that your system is similar to mine except I have a CDX2.2 / XPSDR front end. I added a new 250DR and then a HiCapDR to my SN2 as both were available at a great price and I have no regrets at all. When I eventually change the preamp (waiting for a 372 perhaps!) I am certain that I am going to get big improvements, but for now the system sounds very enjoyable.
I’m with you - NDS/555dr into SN2 +/- hicapdr…replaced latter with 282/hicapdr/250dr. I really didn’t want to spend more money (or have more boxes) but there was simply no comparison and no giving the separates back. Kind of envious that others feel there is little difference/improvement, but I don’t get it. I would absolutely say the improvement is massive - wouldn’t have done it otherwise.
I am positive, from reading, and analysing, many members posts, that the 282/250dr is a solid step up from my SN2 or an SN3. I haven’t even HiCappped my SN2 yet, and I’m desperately trying to stay away from separates, because once I’ve gone there, it won’t be long before I’m sussing out upgrades to 252 or 552 /300 combos.
I really do love the simplicity of the SN2, and I’ve promised myself (and she who shall not be Naimed), that I will max out all the superlative audio possibilities of the current integrated system before I consider any further black box additions; excepting PSs, of course.
You could choose not to go there like me. The 282/250DR is very good. It is able to provide a (small) slice of high-end sound at a relatively modest cost in comparison to the higher models.
Thanks for the suggestion ryder. I’ve read a lot of good posts and reviews on the 282/250 combo, and maybe that’s the best resting place for my enthusiasm. It’s certainly more affordable than the combos I mentioned.
I find I just don’t like incremental upgrades, but the 282/250dr is a nice solid upgrade. I’ll do some research.
Quick background, been with Naim for at least 30 years for amplification. My knees were giving me huge problems , so whilst my gear needed a service it was going to be very difficult to get my 200/202/ HiCap / Stageline/ NAPSC back in the rack .
My speakers are Harbeth P3ESR , the dealer said the XS3 would not cope , it had to be SN3.
I took my speakers in and used them with the SN3 and it was reasonable, given I was downsizing .
There was a Rega Aethos in the room , for the next customer ( so I was told) I asked for a try out and it was light and day between them. The caveat is that the dealer told me in advance with the P3ESR spec they would be difficult to drive.
In the end he came and left me the demo version and I really struggled to find a difference between my elderly multi box Naim system and the newer Rega.
Given the factors I think the Aethos had a huge sound advantage over the SN3 because of it’s power with those particular speakers. Broke my heart moving away from Naim for the amplification and I made some bad choices with the phono stage.
If I had Proacs, PMC, Neat the result may have been different , so I just think with those speakers the Rega won .
With speakers tuned to Naim and with better synergy I am sure it could have been different.
My view is the Aethos is a very fine amp, and both Linn and Naim should be aware that the once budget outsider is moving smoothly up market - unhampered by the resources needed to keep up to date with streaming protocols .
You might find my comments interesting on the Rega Aethos, my view is that separates can offer better performance but it is the law of diminishing returns.
Synergy between amp and speakers can give much better results than you might think
I’m quite surprised some of you think the sn2 or 3 is as good as 282/250dr. I haven’t heard the sn2 or 3 but have owned the 1 with and without Hicap. I’ve also owned 202/200dr without Hicap, with Hicap dr, with Hicap dr and napsc. Now owning 282/250dr and 82 also. The 202 betters the sn and the 282 betters the 202. Also it’s quite an obvious difference, to these ears.
I’d agree and at times, a one-box (non-Naim) integrated may outperform the low to mid range Naim separates. Your case is one of the examples. Apart from the Rega Aethos or Osiris, there are other high quality integrateds from the likes of Vitus, Gryphon, Pass Labs, Accuphase and Luxman to name a few. Most of these integrateds cost between £7,000 to £20,000. It would be a tall order for the £3,500 Supernait 3 to give these integrateds a run for the money if solely on sound quality, perhaps except for value.
All I can say is that my former 272/250DR system by far excelled the performance of SN2 and SN3 with my Harbeths. Much more control and ease(dynamics) in the sound. For more sensitive speakers the difference might be less though.
yes i know, it all happened so quickly. Anyway, it sure is worth it, from a performance point of view. I have found (from my very short experience) is to get the Burndy cable connected up right. This means de-stressing it, and to relax it, in a way that where it just slots into place, without any torsion or twisting in the cable itself and from also the connectors themselves. It will take a little practice and some patience at the same time to feel things right. Yes the XPS DR is expensive and maybe obscenely so, but once that burndy is connected right? WoW! What an upgrade to the already amazing NDX 2. Music just flows in such an unflappable way, that to describe things is pretty hard. It just sounds so right. I would not hesitate!
…just arrange for a home demo and you will know you want for yourself.
If I recall correctly there has only been one member who did not enjoy the upgrade, everyone else has had high praise for the NDX 2 w/ XPS DR combination.
to drive.
moving away from Naim for the amplification and I made some bad choices with the phono stage.