System upgrade help

I feel I should leave upgrade advice of this level to other members who are better placed and more experienced.
I just think to say what you are seeking will help others to advise you.

The twenty5.23s are really good. It would be interesting to know exactly why you’ve zoned in on Focal or Sonus Faber; do you prefer their house sound to PMC? Why not bigger PMCs? Or ATCs. Or ProAc. Or Neat… Anyway, I’d be adding a power supply to the NDX2, ensuring I had an excellent system support and installing dedicated mains. I certainly wouldn’t be changing speakers unless there was something about them that really wasn’t working for me.

3 Likes

£7k would get you a Olympica nova 1 or a Sopra No1. Both should improve upon a few aspect of your old PMC floorstanders - being standmounts will undoubtedly bring you closer to the music, especially if you have a smallish room and like listening nearfield.
If you have a larger room £7k will get you some tasty s/h floorstanders from either but could demand more upstream.

2 Likes

You should start with some demonstrations at a good dealer… :slightly_smiling_face:

You have too many unknowns at present - too many options.

1 Like

For £7000 you should be able to do both the SuperCap DR and 555 PS DR at Secondhand prices if you are patient. Remember though that you will need an XPS Burndy if you go for the 555.
The XPS DR comes with a Burndy and lifts the performance of the NDX2 appreciably. I wouldn’t rule it out if you have no desire to later upgrade to ND555.
A secondhand XPS DR and a secondhand SuperCap DR are certainly well within budget.
Everyone will have opinions on this but in the world of used bargains you often have to take them as and when they appear. That may dictate which you do first. I’d try to do the power supply for the NDX2 first if you can. You may then decide not to progress the SuperCap but I suspect you would still want to try it.
The good thing is that if you buy wisely at a good price, re-selling can usually be done at little cost.

3 Likes

I had more or less similar „problems“. Maybe You find some useful information here: Floorstanders to replace…

In essence: Source first and consistent cabling as well as speaker placement go a long way…

1 Like

FWIW… I would add the XPS DR to the NDX 2, for me it was a huge improvement to the sound.

With any remaining funds and the trade in value of your speakers I would look at improving the speakers.

I have a HiCap DR > NAC 282 > NAP 250 DR and enjoy the combination quite a bit so looking at the source and speakers is where I would be looking.

Good luck with your decision…

2 Likes

You have a well balanced system. The only thing missing is a power supply for the NDX2.

Why not see if you can track down a pre loved XPSDR, or preferably a PS555DR, from a dealer and see if you can demo it at home.

4 Likes

Depends what you’re trying to a achieve. If you add an XPS or 555 you will get a straight immediate upgrade to your system. Changing speakers is a fundamentally different thing, can potentially be a bigger upgrade but can change completely the tonal balance of your system, home demo essential. I don’t know your PMCs but their reputation is 2nd to none unless you’re not content with the overall nature I’d go for the PSU at this stage.

Good luck.

3 Likes

As above, and above the one above.

2 Likes

Thanks everyone for your comments, all are very much appreciated.

Food for thought but the NDX2 PS seems the favourite first upgrade.

As for the speakers, I suppose the fact that the PMC were bought new with my first secondhand 112/155XS, upgraded the amp to 202/200dr and then again to 282/250dr still with the same Twenty5 23’s, I feel it is the speakers time for an upgrade. Saying that they sound pretty good.

I’ll start looking for a PS for the NDX2.

Many thanks,
Colin.

As others have said it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. What do you feel is lacking? The standard advice is to improve the source first. Whilst this is excellent advice I do sometimes feel it is rather lazy and just trotting out the same old thing time after time.

The source is of paramount importance. But you already have an excellent source. Do you need to improve it further? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps you may better get the sort of impeovements you are looking for by changing your speakers.

Consider what you are looking for and consider the system as a whole and where you hope to end up. Adding an XPS or 555 will certainly bring improvements but whether this will be the biggest bang for your buck depends very much on what you are looking to achieve.

1 Like

Hi sailor I. Very interesting read.

I totally get the ‘source first’ method and it makes sense. We do spend a lot of time looking at our speakers, as well as listening to them, and maybe this confuses our senses!

Regards
Colin.

In my view, this is a very good tactic - and its the one that I use. Look around and search - then see what you find. It may take some time - and may not be in the most logical order, but never mind.

You could easily make use of either an XPS2 on your NDX2, or a Supercap on your 282. Or even… (controversial… :crazy_face:) a 2nd HiCap for your 282. All will ‘work’ and are a step forward.

We could call this the serendipity approach… :slightly_smiling_face:

(My own watching and searching has provided me the following, over the years - NAC82, (2nd) HiCap, XPS2, Kudos X3’s, Linn Lingo, Linn Kore - and just this week, NAC A5 cables. Almost a complete system - just by looking around…)

2 Likes

What you really need is a good dealer who can advise and loan you a power supply for your NDX2 and some speakers to try at home.

BTW, I have used the same speakers while upgrading (home demoing at each stage) from a Uniti 2 all the way up to a 500 system, so I would say there is no rush to upgrade your speakers. I have found that introducing/upgrading power supplies, especially on Naim sources, produces significant uplift in SQ. However demoing at home is the only way to confirm this in your own system.

1 Like

I too would recommend a PS for your streamer first.

I have used the same speaker since 1989 and understand the thought that changing them will bring big improvements. My reality is that replacing them is pointless when they are so good and keep revealing improvements made upstream. And the potential for making a cockup is huge!

3 Likes

It really depends on exactly what you are trying to achieve. Adding a power supply to the NDX2 makes it a significantly more expensive source. I don’t argue for a second that it will be considerably improved, but will it bring about the sort of improvements that the OP is looking for?

Because of the ‘source first’ mantra the speakers are often regarded as the ‘poor relations’. Not worth bothering with until you own mega-bucks sources and amplification. The reality is though that more often than not the speakers provide the biggest influence on the overall final sound. Provided that one has a good enough source and amplification then paying attention to the speakers can provide huge gains.

Source first yes. But not to the detriment of all else.

2 Likes

Add me as another voice agreeing with the consensus here that your current speakers have a good deal more to give than you have yet heard from them, so change them only if you want something different (and SF are certainly different).

Getting to specifics, I added a second Hicap to my 82 (similar to a 282 in most ways), and it was just about audible to me if I concentrated/ played test songs and noticeable to some listeners, but it was very marginal. The material pre-amp upgrades were replacing both Hicaps with an old Supercap (which I still use) and then replacing 82 with 52 (which is more like the 252).

I also added a s/h XPS2DR to my NDX2. That was not as significant as replacing the 82 with a 52 soon afterwards, but was still very worthwhile - once had the Supercap on the 82. I tried plugging the 82 into 1 Hicap to see how much difference the XPS2 made to the NDX2 with the lesser pre-map PS - and the answer was that the XPS2’s benefits were very audible to me using 82+Supercap and far less obvious using 82+Hicap.

With patience, ebay will probably provide a Supercap for around £2500 - DR is more expensive & seriously preferred but not vital. An XPS2 might be a bit less, but mot much.

If I wanted to do more, my next step still wouldn’t be speakers or the 250DR - both still have more to give. Instead I would sell the 282, add about £2K and get a 252.

Do bear in mind that 10+ year-old kit benefits from a service and that certainly applies to power supplies and power amps. Naim servicing costs have risen, and may need to be considered when (for example) scanning eBay. In addition, it was possible for Naim to DR older kit - but they don’t do that today, and may not restart in future either.

Finally, if you haven’t looked at or untangled you cables for years, they may be due some attention too.

3 Likes

Very much in agreement with @stuart.ashen and with @NickofWimbledon , on this.

I have not replaced speakers very often - but I have done a lot to what feeds them.

We could debate which is the ‘best’ upgrade, until the Cows Come Home… Which is why I prefer the serendipity approach. See what you can find…

With one exception (which was my NAC102 - never really got on with it), I have never found adding or changing a Naim box to have been less that worthwhile. And you would struggle to loose money. It a Win-Win - :grin:

2 Likes

Exactly.

Apart from my initial purchase at a Naim dealer where I sat down and was blown away as I listened to Joe Cocker, Sheffield Steel on this set of boxes that they had put together to meet my budget, which has since and will continue to cost me a small fortune.

Reason, I search the usual places for ex display and used items and can’t help but press that buy it now button rather too often.

Bargains are there and have to be taken advantage of but may not be exactly what I was looking for.

The problem comes getting those black boxes past the ‘boss’ and onto the Fraim. Once there she has no idea if something has changed!

Enjoy your listening,
Colin.

1 Like