It really depends on exactly what you are trying to achieve. Adding a power supply to the NDX2 makes it a significantly more expensive source. I don’t argue for a second that it will be considerably improved, but will it bring about the sort of improvements that the OP is looking for?
Because of the ‘source first’ mantra the speakers are often regarded as the ‘poor relations’. Not worth bothering with until you own mega-bucks sources and amplification. The reality is though that more often than not the speakers provide the biggest influence on the overall final sound. Provided that one has a good enough source and amplification then paying attention to the speakers can provide huge gains.
Source first yes. But not to the detriment of all else.
Add me as another voice agreeing with the consensus here that your current speakers have a good deal more to give than you have yet heard from them, so change them only if you want something different (and SF are certainly different).
Getting to specifics, I added a second Hicap to my 82 (similar to a 282 in most ways), and it was just about audible to me if I concentrated/ played test songs and noticeable to some listeners, but it was very marginal. The material pre-amp upgrades were replacing both Hicaps with an old Supercap (which I still use) and then replacing 82 with 52 (which is more like the 252).
I also added a s/h XPS2DR to my NDX2. That was not as significant as replacing the 82 with a 52 soon afterwards, but was still very worthwhile - once had the Supercap on the 82. I tried plugging the 82 into 1 Hicap to see how much difference the XPS2 made to the NDX2 with the lesser pre-map PS - and the answer was that the XPS2’s benefits were very audible to me using 82+Supercap and far less obvious using 82+Hicap.
With patience, ebay will probably provide a Supercap for around £2500 - DR is more expensive & seriously preferred but not vital. An XPS2 might be a bit less, but mot much.
If I wanted to do more, my next step still wouldn’t be speakers or the 250DR - both still have more to give. Instead I would sell the 282, add about £2K and get a 252.
Do bear in mind that 10+ year-old kit benefits from a service and that certainly applies to power supplies and power amps. Naim servicing costs have risen, and may need to be considered when (for example) scanning eBay. In addition, it was possible for Naim to DR older kit - but they don’t do that today, and may not restart in future either.
Finally, if you haven’t looked at or untangled you cables for years, they may be due some attention too.
I have not replaced speakers very often - but I have done a lot to what feeds them.
We could debate which is the ‘best’ upgrade, until the Cows Come Home… Which is why I prefer the serendipity approach. See what you can find…
With one exception (which was my NAC102 - never really got on with it), I have never found adding or changing a Naim box to have been less that worthwhile. And you would struggle to loose money. It a Win-Win -
Apart from my initial purchase at a Naim dealer where I sat down and was blown away as I listened to Joe Cocker, Sheffield Steel on this set of boxes that they had put together to meet my budget, which has since and will continue to cost me a small fortune.
Reason, I search the usual places for ex display and used items and can’t help but press that buy it now button rather too often.
Bargains are there and have to be taken advantage of but may not be exactly what I was looking for.
The problem comes getting those black boxes past the ‘boss’ and onto the Fraim. Once there she has no idea if something has changed!
Thanks Nick, your comments, backed up by the majority, are very helpful and give me a clear way forward.
You say DR is not essential but adding your point of the cost of a Naim service to an older non-DR ps, would you hold out and find a late model DR and then it can stay long term and not just as a stop gap. Is the difference worth the expense?
It depends on the actual price gap and your taste/ ears - but most of us would give a solid YES. Also, a quick look at eBay and the like suggests that patience may well save you more than the DR-premium at the moment.
I am clearly out of kilter with the majority here but in my view you have a well-balanced system that doesn’t ‘need’ anything in particular. You are looking to make improvements but are unsure of what to do - which is often the way when a system is already well-balanced.
Of course adding power supplies here and there will improve things. Of course your speakers are capable of giving more from more capable electronics. But to my mind all this rather misses the point.
You have £7K to spend and presumably you’re looking for the biggest bang for your buck. In my experience the sort of improvements you will get by buying a Supercap or a 555PS are more in the realm of crossing the T’s and dotting the i’s rather than being improvements that will dramatically move things forward in terms of increasing your listening pleasure.
So I would say that what you do now really depends on where you want to end up. If you are basically happy with the sound you have then buying a Supercap or 555PS makes sense. It will just expand and develop what you already have.
If however you are looking for a different kind of sound, or you want a dramatic improvement in say scale or dynamics or whatever then I say you would do much better looking to the speakers. £7K spent here could give you a far more dramatic and tangible improvement for your money, and your existing electronics are well up to the job.
IMO you are, by virtue of having an excellent and well-balanced system, in a situation where it is very easy to dispose of many thousands of pounds and be left with something which really isn’t that noticeably better than what you have now. Which would be a disappointment.
Say you find the ‘right’ unit, and its not the DR version, just remember that before DR arrived, it was the best that Naim made. I have not compared prices, but I would guess that the pre-DR versions of Naim units may well be available at relative bargain prices.
For me a bare NDX2 is not really a good enough source for an amp at 282/250 level, and for that reason I would add a power supply or DAC upgrade to it. Your electronics will then be nicely balanced, and you won’t need to throw more money in that direction.
However, there is potential to make big gains by upgrading your speakers if you can find the right pair and get some that really work with your room. There are plenty of excellent speakers out there, and only a home demo will tell you if any of them are right for your room. If you can’t find a pair that are right for you it might just be that you are better off keeping your PMCs. I think a speaker upgrade has the potential to be a bigger upgrade that a source upgrade, but I would still do the source upgrade first.
Being honest I enjoy the Naim bug of upgrading and see it as a hobby.
I’ve had the classic car and poured more money into it than sensible and yes I have the motorbike in the garage that hardly gets used.
The HiFi gets listened to and enjoyed most days which, in my mind, is excuse enough to improve and upgrade whilst investing in equipment that holds its value well.
It’s an absolutely fair point in general. However, hitting eBay suggests a DR can add just a few hundred pounds to a £2K+ cost on some auctions ( and occasionally on fixed price stuff). That is not dissimilar to the cost of a non-DR service.
If the difference is (say) 20% on a particular item, then that can be smaller than the saving for patient but active hunting versus buying the first one you see or over-bidding.
I am not suggesting that all prices are so clear-cut, or that the gap won’t continue increasing now that non-DR machines are not getting the DR treatment.
Clp18, reading this thread with interest. I’m in the same boat (NDX2, 282, HiCap, 200, Kudos 606s).
My next steps could be XPSDR, second hand PS555, Supercap, 250DR, second hand 300DR.
All are around £4-5k mark.
I went to my local dealer to see what I could demo, and they didn’t have anything. In a way this is good, as it just saved me £££. Will try again next year.
(On a side note, you can pick up a pair of second hand Kudos Titan 606s for £7k. They are loved on this form for a reason)
I recently changed my 2016 200dr for a 2020 250dr (cost to change £1350) and this difference is huge. The system has come alive with lovely deep base. It is this improvement that has got me thinking just how good, with some more upgrades, can my system get.
My advise to you would definitely be to change your 200 and if you don’t mind used have a look on eBay, there are some respected dealers selling some great kit, you just have to be patient.
Colin, the 555ps just added more organic sound. Acoustic guitar sounded more like a real instrument, drums sounded more like drums, less boom.
Re the brushed aluminum finish - my 500 and 552 match it and my 2 Fraim stacks have both 552 and 555ps on top, whereas the ndx2 sits in middle so only front facade shows.
Regardless, to me it’s not an issue.
David
