System woes

I was referring to the suggestion of a short shelf life for Naim streamers and your suggestion that gen 2 Naim streamers have greater built in longevity.

I agree that streamer hardware and platform in gen 2 streamers look more able to accommodate future developments in demands from higher res material (local and subscription streaming) but DAC technology has the capacity to develop further. So it could this that drives the next gen streamers.

The current DACs used in Naim streamers are old and no longer manufactured I believe.

BTW I seem to remember upgrading the DAC in a Arcam DVD I had many years ago, so DAC module substitution should technically be possible.

Just idle speculation on my part, no evidence to support this view.

I know what you were referring to :slight_smile: But @roda had been concerned about the streaming services like Spotify CD and not adding Qobuz to the 272, and that’s what I was referring to. And that’s the part that affects if a streamer can still be useful in 5 or 10 years, and the part that carries an expectation for after-sale updates and long-term support.

As far as hardware goes, including DACs, I believe we are all used to the concept of getting what you buy. Maybe DAC development has more life in it, but you can also buy a P8 or 10 now, and then a P12 is released a month later. You might then want the P12, but it does not take anything away from what you have. Same with a DAC. (And that’s the the difference to the streaming part, where the whole box could become useless if a new service wiped out everyone else and support for it could not be added. My point was that this is unlikely with the new streamers)

Sure you could design it for the DAC to be a module that can be replaced, just like you can design a PC with the GPU being replaceable. Or the turntable with replaceable parts (Linn vs Rega). Like all these things, it also comes with trade-offs.

That’s like me saying that my petrol car should be able to run on water. Just because you think it should doesn’t make it any more possible.

The 272 predated the new streaming platform by 2 -3 years. So several years ahead of first gen introduced in say, 2011. The 272 was taken off the market reasonably quickly by Naim standards.

From my perspective only, I would be somewhat peeved having paid for one to find out that the technology in the 272 was not up to scratch to implement Qobuz. Especially when the likes of Jason Gould are saying in online videos it’s 4 times better than Tidal.

I think this incapable technology aspect is a bit of a cop out myself . If first gen software could accommodate Tidal why not Qobuz as well? Is it that dramatically different to Tidal software wise? The newer 272 should have been one step ahead of the first gen platform surely to a certain extent to allow for further advances?

Anyway, product shelf life concerns applies to other hifi manufacturers as well, so I will get off my high horse and make the most of my nd5xs2 for as long as possible. I guess we all hope that any new formats like Spotify Hifi cd/hires resolution, will be attainable at even lower price points and whatever streamers we are using at the time hopefully can accommodate them.

Have a good rest of day folks.

When you are paying out £4k it is not entirely unreasonable to think so.

Cheaper options are obviously available.

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Yes, they could have built a platform capable of hi-res internet streaming in 2015. They didn’t. It was not a good decision with regard to future proofing, I would not have been too happy either had I bought a 272, but water under the bridge, they learned their lesson.

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Fair comment. I’m off to listen to some music rather than worrying about the future.

Cheers guys. I’ll let the OP have their thread back now.

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Steve - completely understand…your issues are reliability and the problems you have been having. I understand and i really feel for you - your situation would drive me insane. My comment re box numbers was directed more at other posts discussing that issue.

Personally i like more boxes because as some have noted it keeps stuff that obsoletes out of my amps. As i said my 72/hicap/250 is 30 years old and just went through its 3rd Naim rebuild. There are some people who restore amps from the 1940s! How is that possible? Easy…simple designs and no digital stuff that obsoletes.

One question Steve re your vinyl crackling noise issue. Do you by chance use the Naim Aro tonearm? Reason is 4-5 years ago i started getting static crackling on my vinyl. Couldn’t figure it out. Finally found an article on the web indicating that there is grounding paint in the Aro and when it fails you get static crackling noise. I had the paint redone by the Naim authorized service center (avoptions) and problem completely fixed.

Richard thats great that Jason is the Naim brand ambassador i didn’t know that. Just a suggestion maybe ramp up the level of activity. More videos. Of course this must be balanced vs other responsibilities…i get that.

Enjoy your Bentley.

I’ve leased a VW Tiguan for a few years - the second day after delivery it developed a fault with an error popping up saying the rear parking sensor was faulty with an undefeatable pinging alarm sound and a clicking noise from the glove compartment.

Of course this error didn’t happen when reversing, only when driving forwards at above 20mph, so you’d have constant loud pinging throughout a journey. Local VW garage could not ‘look at it’ for 10-14 days, horrendous for a new vehicle and apparently as I signed the contract at the dealership VW leasing said I would have to lump it whereas if I’d done it via email I could have returned the vehicle under distance selling agreements!

This error happened a couple of times a few months later but has hopefully been quashed by a firmware update. I constantly get error with the cruise control sensors and can’t use it maybe 1 in 6 journeys without turning off the ignition and restarting which normally fixes it. VW put the errors down to ‘atmospherics’ - never had a single issue with a Golf I bought in 2006.


As Chris says I think most people here would like a classic series or higher level of quality but in a smaller footprint by either shoebox Cyrus size or 272 streaming preamp etc. style.

This was discussed in another thread about future development wish list and you like to hope that Naim staff do read and notice these threads


Three observations:

  1. My experience with Naim is that the sound quality and musicality is generally so engaging is that it is highly enjoyable even at “entry level.” I go back and forth (in two different homes) systems comprised of (a) XS2 and ND5 XS2 and (b) 282, 200 DR, HC DR, NDX2 and XPS DR. While the latter system is obviously at a very different level, I am quite happy listening to both. With both systems I get the wonderful feeling of listening to music.
  2. “Entry level” is in the ear of the beholder. I suspect some might find my 282 based system “entry level”, but I do not.
  3. In terms of box count, I initially ran my 282 powered by my 200 DR (three boxes including streamer if you ignore the near invisible NAPSC). While the addition of the HC DR was a clear improvement, the 282/200 DR is a wonderful combination. I would heartily recommend it to anyone concerned about box count.
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@JasVerlen re the cracking noises. I tried thin copper strips between cart and headshell and all manner of things as I believed it to be a static issue. Others thought different on hearing it. No fault was ever diagnosed but a change of cart solved the problem.

@Gromit1 I agree it’s possible to enjoy “lower quality” systems. Indeed in this thread I’ve stated I know I can enjoy other systems. In fact my Nait5i / Node bedroom system has never failed to please and that’s due in no small part to my expectations of it.
However having had 282/250 before my current 252/300 I couldn’t go back there, or below, for my main system.

Didn’t someone claim that Lindemann’s Limetree Bridge uses the same streaming board?

P.S. Sadly the wrong colour… :wink:

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Possibly both are sourced from StreamUnlimited but they are different boards.

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Did you have a 272?

I had a 272 and loved it.

When I moved on from that I bought an ND5XS2 - the same streamer you have.

I wasn’t a bit peeved because I wanted to move to separates to get even better SQ.

But the 272/555DR was a brilliant way to get the best SQ I’d ever had in decades of HiFi, and it introduced me to the joys of having an infinite music library at my fingertips.

(There are so many actual things in life to get peeved at, I usually try to resist getting hypothetically peeved about things that didn’t happen to me.)


I certainly prefer my 282/200 based system. With the right music/recording, it can be both transporting and transformative. The point I was trying to make is that Naim is so musical that even the lower rung systems are immensely enjoyable.

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Perhaps we should start a new thread on VW woes. There are a number of forums detailing the problems folks are having with VW software/firmware as fitted to new vehicles.
In the same way as the OP @SteveO is considering changing his system I am going to change my car - a year of unresolved problems with no one doing anything about it is too much. Looking at Tesla and Kia EV6
Anyway back to reading about how @SteveO progresses his problem. Hopefully he arrives at a good outcome where he can once again enjoy his music without worry.


Orac very good point. I had a BMW whose electronics were so screwed up they had to replace the entire computer. No joke.

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All cars are mini computers now- fine and good when they work!
Recently the radio in my bmw stopped and was very relieved to find all i had to do was push the on/off/volume button in for 30 seconds!
I had horrid visions of complex and expensive work having to be done to the I-drive!

In hifi terms everything seems to have got very complex and the idea of someone being able to fix faults with a soldering iron rather less likely now?
Covid effects and spares shortages now doubt add to the frustration massively and the size of a repair bill the final straw