Having been a naim amp lover for years there was no way I would have gone with Accuphase on a whim, there are similarities for sure! PraT for one but I found to get the sound I wanted I would have had to paid a lot more money and 3 boxes which I had no room for! So for me I got a bargain and many Naim lovers have gone down that route I have heard either because they don’t want the box count but don’t want to lose quality or going up to the more expensive amps which I am told you would need to spend 3 times that to get similar Naim quality! To good to be true? Maybe 
I ended up swapping it all and I have never looked back. But my reasons are mainly box count simplicity and cost! Great thing about this hobby is we all have different ears!
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I don’t know … yes the entire world is a frustrating mess the last few years but Naim seems to be trying to do its best for customers. I sent in my now 30 year old 72/hicap/250 in the summer for its 3rd 10 year rebuild. Took a month and it sounds amazing. Who else in the industry even does this? This is the epitome of a sustainable product from a company that supports its customers earnestly.
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I confess it was some years ago. But I heard them on 2 different systems, on two different occasions.
I’ve heard Accuphase recently. Their high end pre, power and DAC into B&Ws. Amazing presence and character but way too warm for my liking. It was miles away from the presentation of my Naim kit.
When I went for an integrated I went the Luxman route. Also very different from Naim but sounds nothing like Accuphase.
I think in the current global climate, with huge distributor markup, crazy shipping costs, and difficulties with servicing the further away from a brand’s mothership, it is getting close to untenable to buy non domestic gear. If I was in the UK, I’d buy British. I chose Luxman precisely because they are a sterling local brand to me and therefore the cost performance is massively in their favour compared to any import.
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I’m not sure i understand why people are negative about Naim because of the box count. Naim has options from one box that even includes the speakers (Muso) to one box and you add speakers, to separates, to as many boxes as you want if you have the space and the wallet and the tolerance and patience for the wiring and complexity. What’s wrong with that? If you have too many boxes and more system complexity than you now want then you can sell that and get a lower box Naim system. They have you covered. Simple. All good.
I do agree that Naim no longer has a presence like Julian and also even Paul. Roy Gandy at Rega is all over…go on youtube and he has videos and tours that really bring you into the Rega family and way of thinking. I love Rega even though i don’t own anything from Rega. That’s pretty amazing. Naim has lost that…it is a shame but maybe it just the price as a company gets larger…or maybe when things settle down they can think about getting that back. I actually think the moderator of ths forum Richard would be amazing doing that. There’s a term for this role…brand ambassador.
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The problem is that you only get low box count with entry level systems. If you want a high level of performance you need 6 boxes for most Classic systems even with just one source. I’m not prepared to put that much stuff in my living space, quite apart from the environmental cost of manufacturing all those boxes and keeping them powered up. I respect Naim for their designs, in which decoupling and isolating components and power supplies is a fundamental part, but there are other brands that offer comparable performance from much smaller systems which don’t make your living space look like a dealers demo room. Of course some people like all that stuff, which is fine, but I don’t.
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That’s quite interesting actually Chris. In that perspective maybe there is an idea for Naim to look at … a high end single box and you add the speakers. I kind of like that idea…!
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Certainly Linn and others are doing that but that high level of integration is the main reason I abandoned Linn. Something breaks and the whole system is down. Want to upgrade? Chuck it all out and start again. No thanks.
I think high integration is fine for the lower end. At the higher end it becomes problematic.
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If… I was considering to move away from Naim, my first stop would be Linn.
Going trough the pre-selection for new speakers at different dealers, I listened to Vivid speakers driven by a Linn Klimax combo that sounded really good. A very elegant looking setup with only 2 small boxes, a Klimax DSM (Katalyst) and a Klimax Twin power amp. Two power cords and one interlink, that’s all. Quite a difference from my current 5 box system + all the cables for a streaming only setup.
It seems that Linn also offers a good upgrade path to keep their components up to date too.
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The 572.
Apart from overseeing the forum, I’m the Naim for Bentley brand ambassador. Of course, apart from a few training sessions for Bentley sales staff, the Covid situation has rather knocked that on the head for the past 2+ years…
Naim’s brand ambassador is Jason Gould - there are a number of interesting videos out there with Jas talking about Naim and presenting Naim kit.
At least you got a free Bentley out of it 
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Maybe there’s a role for more Naim staff to participate in some of these threads. One great attraction to dealing with a specialist high end company like Naim is the ability to have a two way dialogue with the company re products and services, and feel more invested in the products as a result. Richard is incredibly helpful in being the product expert on the forum and I hope he gets paid for the service he’s providing! Personally, I like this forum not just because of the community help and feedback, but because you kind of hope Naim are reading and listening to threads like this.
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Yep. My local Linn / Naim dealer has just started stocking Kudos so I’ll be interested in hearing a Linn Klimax / Kudos system. Hopefully Naim will be getting the 272 replacement (yes, I know…) out soon as there is a big gap in the range at the moment for a streaming preamp.
@JasVerlen I don’t have a problem with box count per se, but having two separate problems so close together has really frustrated me. The irony of all this, is that last night the system sounded quite stunning.
The problem on the 252 is an occasional momentary loss of the right channel. A tweak of the balance via the remote can both cause it and cure it (I don’t think it affects the sound but it might I suppose).
The first problem was on the vinyl side, really loud cracks during playback.
As anyone who’s had a difficult to diagnose problem in a complex system will know it’s a case of eliminating possible suspects. First of all it’s a case of looking at the free stuff - did it happen when record not playing, are all the connections secure, check the earthing etc. After that I tried a different earth. Thought then it could be a box so removed the power supply on the Superline but the issue remained. The Snaic and arm cable were swapped out. The mat was changed from felt to leather. The SL went back to base but that came back with no fault found. As a last check we swapped out the cart and the problem vanished. The cart was under two years old and went back to the manufacturer who couldn’t find a fault. They did replace the cart FOC though, which I thought was amazing. My dealer was also amazing and allowed me to use his demo XX-2 while mine was away (2 months). In fairness to Naim, that issue would have been no easier to resolve on any system.
The second problem, in October last year, was a loss of bass and fullness across the whole system (3 sources). Once again we’re eliminating suspects. Borrowed a SCDR and that seemed to resolve it so mine went back to HQ. While mine was away it became clear the issue had improved but not resolved. Naim diagnosed a fault on my SCDR in line with what I described and replaced the DR modules. The system still sounded “off” though. Allowed some time for the new parts on the SCDR to burn in but an improvement never came. Then Christmas got in the way. The NAP300DR and its PS went back. This time Naim couldn’t find a fault but changed some caps as a precaution (don’t know which ones). This brought back the fullness of sound to the system but the problem with the right channel persists so the 252 goes in next week. There is nothing else left to return so that has to be the problem. Doesn’t it?
It’ll be April by I get it back. So another long process to reach a satisfactory conclusion. I just don’t think I’ve got it in me to spend so much time, energy (and money) chasing down a problem in the future. So the time to move it on has to be now, when its all working. If I wait until it fails again I have to fix it again before moving it on. As @ChrisSU wrote - I can’t get the equivalent sound in a Naim system with a lower box count.
As a footnote to highlight my frustrations, while I’ve been trying to resolve this problem, I’ve a Nait5i and Bluesound Node in the bedroom that has been sounding better than my main rig.
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I’m sure it’s coming, and I’m sure it would have come a lot sooner were it not for global supply issues.
There are of course two approaches for a low box count setup: streaming preamp and power amp, and streamer and integrated amplifier. Having owned both I’m not sure which is best. Streaming technology advances quickly and amplifier technology doesn’t. First generation Naim streamers are worth very little these days, including the 272 of course. Whether it’s a good idea to closely link streamer and preamp I just don’t know.
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The box count has some impact on manufacturing energy cost but that’s probably dwarfed by the differences between, say, two persons’ eating habits.
I don’t think that box count has much impact on power usage. An integrated still has all the same parts that must be powered, regardless of being in one box. There may be some savings by the integration, but probably not much. For instance, the SN3 uses 37 Watts on idle. The 250 uses 25 Watts and a pre about 15 or so. So that’s a difference of 3 Watts.
(And if you have a super integrated with streamer, that part will probably always be powered even if you listen to CD or phono, while it can be in standby with separates)
(For comparison I tried to look up the consumption of Accuphase’s E-5000 (their highest level class-AB integrated) but doesn’t seem to be published)
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I have to admit to being a bit of a dinosaur.
Over 90% of my listening on the main rig is vinyl. Since adding the Node to the bedroom system I’m wondering if maybe replacing my CDS3/XPS2 with a CD transport into a DAC, either built in to a pre or stand alone might be good enough for the few times I spin a disc. And maybe another Node for radio duties (I’m currently addicted to Radio Paradise). My Ron Smith aerial was brought down and destroyed in the recent storms so my NAT05 resides in a box …
I’m sure you are right Nigel. Difficult times in many ways. I like to keep things simple so it’ll be interesting to see what Naim will offer in the future for those of us who have had the multiple boxes and want a less intrusive, yet high performing system. As has been mentioned elsewhere, Naim seem to be a bit of a faceless organisation at the moment so it’s not really clear what the vision is for the future.
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It would be less of a problem if Naim were able to support their streamers ( I don’t mean servicing) for longer. In terms of software updates and any new streaming platforms coming on board. Eg Spotify at cd level. If it ever happens.
It would appear once a new streaming platform is introduced on a new range, the older streamer is redundant to a certain extent. The 272 wasn’t around for that long before it became discontinued. Not good news for those that shelled out £4k on it!
Surely that should have not been discontinued until the replacement was in place? I’m sure Covid had some impact on future plans.
That’s why I’m reluctant to get a Ndx2, paying a heck of a lot of money to find that it is no longer able to adapt to new formats/ software once it is made obsolete. Which could be the case in say 2-3 years. £6k is a lot of money for some of us. Maybe it makes sense to buy a cheaper transport and change that as and when required and spend more on the DAC, to lessen possible financial losses?
Spending close to £6k on a streamer to then find it has a shelf life is concerning. I don’t see why older products can’t be software/ format supported for longer just because they don’t utilise the latest streaming platform. Not a problem you have with cd or vinyl of course.
But then it wouldn’t make good business sense for Naim to entice you to buy their latest all singing all dancing product. I realise the nature of the beast with streaming is ever evolving , but I would just like to see older products still software supported for longer. Surely it isn’t that difficult?