Systems Control Integration

For the new Naim systems with Zigbee control, we’re trying to find a way to integrate control of a TV monitor, PVR / set top box and Blu-ray player, in the same way as we currently do very simply using IR control via a Logitech Harmony Remote.

Getting an IR blaster for a Zigbee network and loading the codes for the TV, PVR & Blu-ray is easy, but trying to integrate those into a system including the Naim system and a remote control handset seems to be near impossible, and gets more complex the more you look at it. The suitable remote handsets are either BT or WiFi, hence don’t link to Zigbee without a gateway, and the gateways insist that they are either controlled via an app on a mobile device or propriety actions for Alexa/Google digital assistants with only a limited set of actions.
It also seems that Naim may well be using proprietary data protocols over standard Zigbee transport protocols, so it’s unlikely that this can be integrated this way anyway.

Integrating via the Naim app is a non-starter as it’s simply too unstable: on any comms error, instead of handling the error it latches on the ‘My Devices Discovery’ screen, completely stops acting as a controller and FORCES the user to sort out the apps problems for it (instead of doing it itself - this is very poor software design).
Thinking about it we don’t even know the comms requirements for the Naim app, we’re missing information like latency limitations, details of the protocols on which it depends to identify and communicate with Naim devices, and how the diagnostics identify “WiFi Range Extenders” (it misidentifies something on our network as a range extender, but give no clue at all as to what it’s getting confused about).

Unless we can solve this, it would seem that, for us, upgrading to the new streaming platform is a complete non-starter.

Maybe what you need is the newish Matter protocol from Google and others, that is intended to facilitate the integration of different automation systems. I remember reading something about it some months back and might have posted a link to an article about it.

Try with Apple home kit . Zigbee is fully integrated in that system and maybe you can find something that can work for you.

I use a dealer installed “Control4” remote which integrates pretty well with everything I have.
Turn on TV, select correct input on the TV (live TV, BluRay Foxtel/Sky) and SN3, volume, channel changes, iRadio, UPnP, etc.
I believe it may have to be a dealer installation though.

Not sure about the 222, but as far as I’m aware the 332 has a dual format (electro optical) 3.5mm socket so it can use system integration from the New streamer (optical) or the older ND series (electrical).

If this is true, then you could use a custom 2.5mm to 3.5mm mono cable from the IR blaster port of the Harmony Hub and control inputs and volume in the same way that an NDX or NDX2 would via the app (as it is effectively just sending the same electrical RC5 codes that would work a 282 or similar).

Haven’t had a chance to confirm this in the real world yet, but certainly the spec sheet and manuals more than suggest this would be possible.

Hope this helps, and that it proves correct.

Thank you, really nice idea, but won’t work, here’s from the product specification:

“Optical 3.5mm output for synchronised control of compatible products”

So output only.
:disappointed:

Spec sheet of the 332 shows electro-optical sockets… 1 input and 2 outputs.

The 222 only had outputs, so no good… But a 332 could work as described.

Ok… have just chatted to a former colleague who is a Naim dealer and has tried this …

332 DOES support wired IR commands from an NDX2 or similar. That means you CAN run a wired connection from a Harmony Hub and control input/vol/mute on a 332. It’s the same protocols as it might send to a supernait or a 282, and back when I was a Naim dealer i hooked up a few AV solutions featuring Naim 2ch and Harmony remotes.

However, 222 streaming pre and 333 streamer ONLY have remote OUT so cannot be controlled in this way.

As I also use a Harmony remote and hub to control a joined 2ch/AV solution, this is good news. It means I’d have to go all the way to a 332… But as it’s movies or records in my home with no real streaming (beyond background music via the AV processor) that’s liveable.

Hope this helps

M

Unfortunately I’ not looking to spend £18,500+
(£16,000 for 333 & 332, £1,000 legacy cables for 555PS, £1000+ for new rack, £400+ for a new AtoD converter to handle the A/V components into the 332)
otherwise I’d do that.

Questions for Naim staff:

Does any one at Naim know if there’s a Zigbee coordinator / router system that is compatible with the Naim use of Zigbee for control of volume and input selection from the 222?

Otherwise is there any intent to alter the Naim app so that it doesn’t latch-up on transient network errors?
(i.e. getting ‘stuck’ showing a modal error dialogue [ rather than a non-modal error message and option to run the network diagnostics ] .)

I’m currently running a Wireshark session to try to capture the intermittent network event(s) that trigger the problem with the Naim app.

Not necessarily the direct cause of the issue, however:

After a random amount of time the Naim App goes crazy and starts spamming the network with Bonjour queries, sometimes with less than 1ms interval between them.

This correlates with the app going to the My Device Discovery screen, at which point latches at that screen. It then has no UI elements that can control the streamer, and even the control by tablets hardware volume control buttons is lost (on that screen the tablets buttons only control the tablets own volume).

This loss of control makes the app an unsuitable interface for controlling the system in real time!

Do you have an Ethernet adapter to connect to the tablet, that way it would take the Wi-Fi out of the equation.

I’m guessing you’re mirroring the port that your Naim device connects to to do the Wireshark capture.

WiFi isn’t an issue as I use a separate WAP, and that transmits Bonjour transparently.

The PC, streamer, NAS and PC are then connected to an unmanaged switch; this is connected to the switch ("Ethernet ports’) on the back of the ‘Router’ which then connects to another unmanaged switch that connects the PVR and Blu-ray player.

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Found the characteristic event for the issue, it’s when the Naim app sends the following message:

Src: “192.168.1.18”
Dst: “224.0.0.251”
Protocol: “MDNS”
Length “84”
Info: “Standard query 0x0000 PTR _naim-updater._tcp.local, “QM” question”

When it sends a Bonjour with anything other than _naim-updater._tcp.local in the query string, there’s no problem. However this message is the characteristic event at the time that the Naim app fails.

I may have found a way to do this:

Using:
Home Assistant Yellow
A Raspberry Pi CM4 with the WiFi / Bluetooth module (4Gb RAM, 32Gb Flash)
A Bluetooth Airmouse

The Airmouse registers with the Pi as a keyboard, so from Home Assistant, using
→ the Bluetooth integration
→ The keyboard integration
→ -> this allows key click events to be generated for each button on the Airmouse

Home Assistant has an integration for
→ DLNA

Home Assistant has an integration for
→ Synology

This should allow automations to be setup to map the keys on the airmouse to DLNA commands to the streamer via the Ethernet interface to the streamer.

.
In addition for a PVR
→ Kodi integration to a very simple low power HTPC

For the monitor
→ there integrations for many brands of TVs

For the Blue-ray / DVD Playback
→ there integrations for many brands of Blue-ray player, or use Kodi

.
There is even a possibility that it MAY be possible to integrate the Naim Zigbee control via the Zigbee 3 module of the Home Assistant Yellow board, but I don’t hold out a lot of hope for this.

.

I’m going to ask Naim support if they know anything that can help with this.