A new DAC would be very interesting. I thought though that Naim bought a shedload of the old ones as they were struggling to find a new generation DAC that sounded anywhere near as good.
I think it would be odd to launch a new DAC in the 272.2. Surely when a new DAC is found, then it would be launched across the whole streamer range.
A new DAC will of course have to happen at some point.
I genuinely do not think a replacement is going to happen.
It seems fairly obvious to me. I couldn’t care either way if it does or doesn’t as it’s not a product relevant to me.
I’m pretty sure they said that they needed the shed load in order to ensure maintenance of existing products. But memories fade.
Ummm…but they still have a lot of second gen streamers to sell, with the current DAC installed.
It may seem obvious to you, but that doesn’t mean you are right. I reckon you’ll be proven wrong in time. Let’s see.
Past and future sales of past and current products. Not new products. Maybe.
All the current streamers have different dacs already, only the nd555 uses the old burr brown chip that they love do much. The rest use various texas instrument dacs and implementation going up in quality with cost of the unit.
Yes, but all the current DACs Naim use are ‘old generation’, aren’t they? IMV, Naim will, at some point, need to move to a more advanced, current DAC, assuming they can find one that sounds better than the old gen DACs.
If Naim are sourcing components from the far east there could be a valid reason for a delay.
No point in launching if you can’t supply yet.
I think Naim believe the Analog devices Sharc processor doing the donkey work, and the straight digital to analog by the dac is still state of the art in their opinion. I personally think that they are unlikely to jump ship and join the FPGA dacs…
they have too much time and money invested in the current Sharc programming, which they are still learning how to program and tweak.
I am sure you are right but won’t the current generation of DACs that Naim still use become scarce? Things seem to move relatively fast in DACworld.
If I were in Naim’s position I’d be talking to AD under NDA provisions to establish where the SHARC processors are going in respect of potential for reduced clock ultra low power usage, but also, at the same time considering using FPGA for data preprocessing and DAC control.
(On its own, a FPGA can’t be used as a DAC, but it can be used to control and optimise the performance of the analogue components that, working together with the FPGA, form a DAC.)
They are still being made by Texas instruments, the 1792A used in the NDX2 is still in production.
That doesn’t really matter, there are literally dozens of different DAC chips from several suppliers that could be integrated into the Naim architecture. There would need to be some relatively minor hardware changes to interface to a new DAC chip, however the biggest issue would be in reoptimising the SHARC firmware for the characteristics of the new device.
I just wonder if considering how they have seemed to struggle with bugs etc with the Sharc processor, the embracing of a whole new programming architecture…might be a tall order. But talking future technology with Analog devices makes a lot of sense.
If AD come up trumps with an ultra low power capable but still relatively fast SHARC, then I believe Naim may well continue with that. However if this isn’t on AD’s roadmap, then Naim are going to be forced to adopt a different strategy, and FPGA seems the most logical. As an intermediate step Naim may use the FPGA in place of the SHARC to do the data preprocessing and control of a TI DAC chip pretty much as present, before moving on to integrating the digital parts of DAC functionality into the FPGA (i.e. a so-called FPGA DAC).
I’m absolutely no ‘techie’, but would I be right in thinking that, if using an external power supply with the 272, the internal one is switched off completely and therefore noiseless? If that’s the case, other than by having room to spread out the other components were that onboard PS to be removed, how would the SQ of a new version of the 272 be significantly better than the current model, without including an improved DAC. I get that some members want all the new fancy streaming stuff (Qobuz, Chromecast, Roon etc), but surely that is simply about improved functionality (not for me!) rather than improved SQ?
I told you I’m not in the slightest bit technical, and much of what is said on this forum flies straight over my head, so if I’m talking out of my proverbial, please gently educate me and tell me just how the SQ of a 272 can be significantly improved, whilst keeping to a 3 box system.
As you say, if the 272 is not plugged in to the mains, its transformer is turned off.
I’m not technical either, but it seems to me that if the NDX2 can be a lot better than the NDX, then a 272.2 can be a lot better than the 272.
Unless a new model moves significantly upmarket, I very much doubt it would have no power supply, as the entry price becomes too high for most. I’ve long suggested a 272.2 and a 372, the latter having no power supply and being able to use both outputs of a 555 ps. We can dream.
How did Naim improve the SQ of the NDX2? Did it incorporate a new DAC, or was it down to better quality components? I’d just like to understand what a 272.2 would incorporate that would make it sound so much better.
Two points to consider:
First, the AD SHARC processor is inherently a noisy little beast (electrically that is).
Second, the new streaming boards use a different type of connection to the rest of the system reducing conducted noise through the interface
Now, although the new interface allows the possibility of reducing the interference, in the current design that won’t achieve very much as the digital boards are on top of the analogue board so the interference still gets through because of the relatively close proximity.
However, by separating out the boards, that path for the interference is dramatically reduced (by a factor more than 10) so the the new interface between the different boards can then substantially reduce the level to which digital interference affects the analogue boards.