The future of Naim streamers

Actually I have compared but not in equal terms, I have an artist friend that sent me the master wav 24.192 of his album, they uploaded the same master to Qobuz,Tidal and other streaming services, but for some reason the available version in Qobuz and tidal are 24.96 the tidal version is MQA.

The master in wav is better than the MQA version but is higher resolution unfortunately, not a huge diference but the diference is there, I do not have Qobuz to try at the moment.

But the 24.96 mqa sounds better than the cd version of his album.

In my case the master wav is the best, the MQA second the cd the third, I rather have the MQA than the CD if not having access to the original master.

The biggest diference between the master was a little more air and better separation, not a huge diference but is there.

Edited to add: 24bit MQA of the same master, 16bit MQA is trash.

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It makes perfect sense to me! :slight_smile: As in ā€œI donā€™t like MQA but having the option would be good for those who doā€. Iā€™m not sure if this is what @sonwleo meant, but it would be a valid, none-contradictory statement.

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The whole internet really :slight_smile:

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English is not my main language, I try to explain a little better.

I would prefer MQA never existed, but since it exists and I do not think is going away soon, having it on a dac or a streamer is a great bonus for the user and the brand I think.

I Am living with the format on tidal for sometime now.

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Tidal has around 1% market share. What they do or not do is in reality not of any interest. They are also losing money so their long term commitment to being the only service paying MQA license fees may be questioned (sorry for the FUD :-))

Last year Tidal was sold to Square who was interested in using the service to sell music as NFT:s (Non Fungible Tokens which means protected/encrypted blockchained content). NFT:s were a booming tech last year - not so much now.

On a technical level MQA limits innovation on DAC:s. What happens to the MQA-tags in the stream if you use a digital volume control, apply digital room correction like in Roon or digital crossover like Linn? I donā€™t know the answer, my guess is you can do the first unfold before this but not the following as those are tied to each DAC-implementation.

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MQA is the classic ā€œSolution searching for a problemā€.

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I listen to Qobuz Hires for several years with 272/XPSDR, I pilot the 272 with an ipad and mconnectā€¦ I find the sound excellent, the interface practical what else? I donā€™t need the latest technology, that supposedly, improves the sound and the interface but I donā€™t believe in itā€¦ so the 272 stays at home!

Being relatively new to Naim I prepare to be corrected, but re next steps for Naim streaming would it be fair to say they are lacking a decent streaming pre-amp?

I say this as I would like to stick with Naim but find myself looking at items from PS Audio and Auralic to tick the boxes for my next upgrade purchase.

On a final note, I stream from Tidal only so on paper MQA decoding is desirable, but even in 44.1 FLAC spec through my second hand Uniti2 the streams are impressive and more musical/well timed than Iā€™ve heard elsewhere.

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I just had a chat with a local Naim/Linn dealer, and he said that Naim is now losing some loyal customers because there is a lack of new streamers for the last 3 years, and that included me, I decided to go for the Linn Klimax DSM/3 because I could not wait for so long and because of its superior technology (beside SQ), plus it is a pre-amp+PSU, all in one box.

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Itā€™s been a long wait so far - two years since the 272 was discontinuedā€¦

I would say longer than that really. The first of the 2nd gen streamers were released in 2017, and even that was after a lengthy delay. The separates followed in 2018, so I assume that if things were running smoothly any streaming preamp would be planned to arrive soon after that.

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Yes, that seems to be the case here in New Zealand as well. The ex-Naim guys are pushing Linn now that they stock them - not surprising, they have to be a viable business. I heard the Klimax DSM last weekend, itā€™s a very nice piece of gear, sounds great, excellent quality. There is no doubt that combined with a partnering power amp, itā€™s a very desirable 2 box option that is going to perform at the level of a multi-box Naim set up.

My only caveat is that when I got home and listened to my set up, there is a solidity and scale with the Naim that I didnā€™t feel that the Linn has. Just a different type of presentation really. If I wasnā€™t so heavily invested in Naim, the simplicity and quality of the Klimax system would certainly be very tempting.

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All good points Mike

Like you all my gear ( apart from Linn TTā€™s) is Naim

If I go with a streamer the logical one is the NDX2

However what I like about Linn Streamers is the capacity to upgrade the DAC boards as time goes by, something that Naim doesnā€™t offer

I have been advised by my long suffering dealer that the equivalent Linn streamer to the NDX2 is the Akurate DMS , however itā€™s certainly somewhat more expensive ( around $6k more from memory ) and has a different SQ to Naim that Iā€™m use to, so it would be a very brave move to go in the Linn direction.

See what happens in the future

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Out of interest, what power amp do you use your KDSM 3 with ?

I am now using the Linn Klimax mono block Solos (dynamik version). Notice one of my shoes was taken accidentally :slight_smile: on the top-left of Klimax DSM/3 display. Surprisingly, the Fraim (originally housed the Naim NAP 500 + PS) is still in good shape and good finish after more than 20 years exposed to fierce sunlight in California, such a good Naim design and engineering.

It was then:

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Thanks. Thatā€™s a very nice setup !

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You could always try the Linn KDSM (Organik) through Naim amps. This is how I heard it at my local Linn/Naim retailer. The retailer was playing both the KDSM and the ND555 (with one CD555PSDR) through a NAC282 with NAP500 into some Kudos speakers, the model number of which I donā€™t recall. OK, so he wasnā€™t demonstrating the preamp element of the KDSM, and wasnā€™t able to reflect exactly what I use at home, but this was a reasonable demo of the exceptional performance of the KDSM streamer whilst still enjoying the presence given by the Naim Audio amplification.

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I had a listen to The linn DSM with itā€™s new Organik DAC v Chord DAVE v Naim NDX2/555ps - the Naim was with a 552 /250 into Kudos.

The Linn dug out immense levels of detail and still sound ā€œorganicā€ and analogue like - really impressive.

The Chord offered a different presentation and sounded very good but not as good as the Linn and I struggle with the looks of Chordā€¦.

Both Linn and Chord sounded better to me than the Naim offering.

As I have active ATC speakers I will be doing a home demo of the Linn straight into the ATCā€™s

Kind of of sad that the Naim offering was the most expensive by some distance and came last in how it soundedā€¦ā€¦

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What amplification was used with the Linn and Chord options?

Hi Mike, Nap 250 driving Kudos 606 was the consistent theme across the 3 different solutions. I was pretty surprised that 552/250/NDX2/555 was the least satisfying and by some marginā€¦ā€¦

My current set up is 552/NDS/555ps. I recently sold nap300 / Focal Kanta and bought Active ATC 40ā€™s - only thing I could get to work in my room following a house move but thatā€™s another story!

I have had a bit of a desire for less boxes, faffing and simplicity for a while and the Linn is a very interesting proposition - tried the selekt DSM a while ago and it was way to polite for my tastes but the Klimax / Organik DSM really caught my ears and enough for me to arrange a home demo.

Interesting times and this is an interesting thread.

When I got into Naim I liked the model - hi fi for life and reasonable service costs across products that were made decades ago - loved this philosophy.

Streamer tech is fast moving and I accept this but it does makes you think hard before dropping vast sums of money on a box that maybe out of date within a short period of time (obv that includes Linn too) and Naimā€™s change in philosophy on servicing and costs have made me think - the annual price increases and the servicing cost changes have killed of a little bit of my brand loyalty if Iā€™m honest, recoverable though as I rate Naim as a great company and no doubt will continue to turn out great products but humming transformers, multiple power hungry boxes and the scale of the infrastructure required in your living room do need some thought from Naim if they are to stay ahead of the curveā€¦

Gary

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