I think you will find that they do although not necessarily in races.
How do you know they enjoy it. I worked in the racing industry for the first 2 years of my working life I witnessed some horrible things that have stayed with me all my life. Do you know what it’s like to return from the races with just the gear. These animals are treated as commodities and are often put down for insurance purposes.
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Except those horses that refuse to jump - as the form indicated that at least one of the field had a history of refusing to take a fence.
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Bruce, to be 100% clear on this (and I don’t have a horse in this race - so to speak):
1- are you against all horse racing, and even to the point of keeping horses for social purposes (local stables etc), down to the level of not allowing gymkhanas and Pony Club events?
2- or just against the Grand National (and other National Hunt events?), as an event which carries with it higher levels of risk, which could be classed as unnecessary, for the horses (and riders to the same point)?
There will always be issues at the risks of many activities and how do you define ‘vulnerable’ in the wider context here e.g. a dad taking their kid to rugby minis/go-karting etc, the kid eager to please and wanting to participate but being unaware, initially at least, you can get badly hurt in extremis.
Through my lens, if I was casting up a list of priorities for change as regards protecting animals, horse racing wouldn’t be the near the top of that list. As humans, we don’t have a great track record of caring for & looking after each other…best stop here.
People get terribly upset about horses, donkeys, cats, dogs and so on, yet they are happy to devour chickens, pigs, cattle that have been kept in disgusting conditions, living miserable lives. There is a whole industry making profit from animal exploitation. The odd horse dying on TV is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Happy listener
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No. Much as I have a niggling discomfort about ‘using’ animals for sport it is clear the risks in races such as The National are greatest. That crosses my personal line of what feels acceptable. I do respect that there is a huge culture and industry around other aspects of horse racing that could be sustained.
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Sure, but it is a public spectacle and that argument smacks of ‘whataboutery’. I am not a vegetarian. I try to buy and support products of what I believe to be good husbandry, and not what I believe to be cruel. Just because those cruelties exists doesn’t, for me, excuse jump racing.
As for a child (or a vulnerable adult) taking up a dangerous sport, well I think we can all identify that at some levels of risk that might be considered unacceptable. Plenty of examples of these abuses in sport. Vulnerable means impaired ability to self-determine, and with the potential for manipulation without fully informed individual choice and agency to enact their choices
Hope that makes sense.
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Big difference though. Horse racing is for ‘entertainment’ and financial gain. At least eating an animal gives sustenance.
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Absolutely correct which is why I have made lifestyle choice to go Vegan
Bruce - thanks – and my view in all this (and trying to limit the ‘whataboutery’ aspect), is akin to HH’s, in that we live in a highly imperfect society, where there are many things to dislike.
And sometimes the horses do refuse to play the game:
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Cheers.
A good point to end I feel!
Bruce
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I think that mixes/confuses two distinct demographics - animal welfare advocates and animal welfare agnostics. I agree, there are many who don’t care about the conditions for livestock but I would hazard a guess that the majority who speak up for cats, dogs, donkeys etc. are not amongst them.
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Bruce, there’s no need to preempt being civil here. Most people here are decent and the moderation is exemplary.
We have fish and polar bears here, but clearly no horses, so I can’t ask specifically if all horses like to race. Nor have I ever been a jockey or worked at a stables. My statement is based on many horse owners I know and reading a lot of what Frankie Dettori has comprehensively described about his relationships with horses, in particular his favourite horse which he had a very personal bond and that was why he won so much on him. I like Frankie’s attitude towards horses, understand where he’s coming from and choose to listen to people like him on horse racing.
Horses that race are bred to race. It’s in their genes. They need to run and each one is specifically chosen whilst young based on it’s character, not just it’s build. This is why they cost a fortune; they’re not that common.
No one likes horses dying, but that’s the stupid race organisers fault.
You could ask would my cat come knocking on the door asking to come and live with me if he didn’t know me. Stupid point, but where do the questions end? Complex subject and we’re never going to cover it properly in writing online.
I used to love the The Grand National as a kid and looked forward to going to the bookies with my Dad on this once in a year event. I don’t anymore, but to read that yet another event should be closed because some people get offended, is a bit annoying.
And no, fox hunting shouldn’t be allowed because humans are just having a little bit of fun, either.
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But isn’t horse racing and greyhound racing just humans having fun. Apart from the animal welfare issues there’s also the human tragedy as well many families are ruined because of gambling which is the whole point of the industry.
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Horses and greyhounds are having fun, the fox isn’t.
Gambling? Well that’s another subject. Plenty of professional gamblers and wealthy ones. Real life isn’t it?
Some dogs were bred to fight and have fighting in their genes but thats no longer widely accepted as justification to keep those breeding and fighting practices going.
I am not necessarily against sporting events which celebrate the bond between man and animal but I don’t think an event where it’s all but guaranteed a horse will die as a result is much of a celebration. I imagine the bookies would offer odds-on that at least one horse dies during the Grand National.
I can’t think of another (legal) sport involving an animal where publicly whipping the animal is allowed.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ” Mahatma Ghandi
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Personally, I don’t like it and think it is needlessly cruel to the animals. Humanity has a history of being needlessly cruel to animals and other humans, the Grand National is just a more noticed example of this. I would like to see it and many other forms of animal exploitation stopped, but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.
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Indeed but it’s not the Frankie’s of this world that are the problem.
Sir Mark Todd is a rider from NZ, celebrated for his sporting successes and relationships with his horses. However, when this video was unearthed of him whipping some poor horse with a branch for not wanting to enter a puddle, we got a bit more insight into what really happens behind the scenes:
The fact he has picked up a branch from the ground suggests it’s pretty common behaviour on his part to ‘train’ the horse.
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You keep saying that but how do you know they’re having fun, what’s your proof.
The horses that return to the stables with whip marks on their necks and rumps doesn’t shout fun to me. The batteries that are used to spike them (usually during training) doesn’t sound like fun either and been put down because you’re worth more dead and it saves them spending money on an investment that’s now worthless.
Also while I’m sure some love their horses they’re often oblivious to what actually goes on. Think you should balance your information with those that have worked in the industry.
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If people want to waste there money, then so be it.But its all about these beautiful horses. Its bloody cruelty to make these beautiful creatures jump, all for somebody’s enjoyment
Big racing fan here but not a fan of the National, the field is far to big IMO.
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