The Grand National

Surely time’s up for the annual Aintree meeting. Too many horses knackered or killed over the course of a few days and pretty much the same most years.

I know hundreds of racehorses are injured and put down at the many other race meetings held over the calendar as a whole but this seems to be just cruel carnage made out to be ‘glorious’ by some, for the sake of inhumane pleasure of some others isn’t it?

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I could not agree more. Thank you for raising this

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If one or two of the jockeys died each year it would be a national disgrace, and would have stopped years ago.

I don’t buy the argument that these horses are cared for and pampered. They are run for reward and sometimes they get injured and are killed. They are treated as disposable assets. Please don’t tell me that they ‘enjoy it’.

I am no great animal lover, or horse lover really. I just feel that we have a duty of care to the animals we rear and breed, whether for food or sport. That duty includes not placing them at a high risk of accidental death.

The race appears to accept that a degree of risk and calculated abuse is OK for these animals in the name of sport and betting millions. If that is the public view then lets at least be explicit about it.

Bruce

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I would like to think there would be complaints about the TV coverage in which owners were allowed to rail against protesters as though the latter knew nothing at all.

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I did not watch the whole build up but it was clear the pundits missed one of the main points that the demonstrators wanted to make, which was horses die during or after the race. It was naive for the same pundits to equate horse racing with other dangerous sports, nor was the point that most of these horses lead pampered lives.

Of course the sport of kings is big business and the exchequer benefits as well but as it’s largely self regulated time must be approaching for government intervention.

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Well, I’m telling you they do enjoy it. And they’re very well pampered. Do you want to know anything else?

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The BBC have reported that:
“As well as the death of Hill Sixteen, Dark Raven was put down earlier on Saturday following a fall during the Turners Mersey Novices’ Hurdle at Aintree, while Envoye Special suffered a fatal injury in the Foxhunters’ Chase on Thursday.
There have been five fatalities from 395 runners in the 10 Grand Nationals raced since safety changes were introduced in 2012.
Bookmakers expected more than £150m to be wagered on the National, which takes place over 30 fences and four and a quarter miles.“

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Every year the Isle of Man TT races take place. Every year riders die. Every year nothing is done. Boxing is a sport that requires violence against another person, people die. The owners, trainers and riders of horses will defend their sport, as will the bookmakers. It is the way of ‘Sport.’

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As a society, many enjoy risk, competition and uncertainty – I understand something to do with biology and all the chemicals involved.

It’s very well known and recognised that the ‘country set’ (to grab a collective noun) husband and value their pets, horses et al, far better than many others. Perhaps have a gaze over the RSPCA’s stats (and those of other animal charities) and reflect on why per ownership isn’t more regulated/restricted?

Everything which goes on in life has a cost and is rarely perfect (to any reasonable definition)…the only question is whether it is tolerable, and why, often, should minorities dictate to the majority what they should do/like/participate in (unless there are overriding concerns which dictate legislative controls and regulation).

Horse racing and the protection of the treatment of horses is relatively well regulated.

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No doubt some enjoy it, but evidently not all.

The running and jumping part is probably fun, dying or being put down as a result of injuries, possibly less so.

Participants choose to compete at the Isle of Man or in boxing, cognisant of the risks they sign up for. I’m not sure thats the case for horses…

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Agree. Boxing and TT racers make a conscious decision. Horses can’t

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I know that this is emotive and I hope we can keep this civil. I have gradually changed my mind on this over time; I used to enjoy watching horse racing. This is a valid and complex debate. I respect those who disagree. Forgive my lack of brevity below!

Count D
How do we know horses ‘enjoy’ racing? Do we assess them as having equivalent free will, and the ability to choose to be involved, as would a human undertaking a dangerous sport (and lets face it many, many sports are dangerous but few have a level of risk as high as jump racing)? Race horses are bred and trained to race. Do they choose that role?

Horses are animals, they are unable to assess risk at a detailed level. We assume they ‘enjoy’ food, but then they need that to survive. Same presumably for sex, water, maybe sunshine. Do they ‘enjoy’ exercise? Human contact? Intense exercise, jumping? They may be habituated to any or all of these, but can we honestly sat that this is enjoyment that equates to a human choosing to take up Rugby, or boxing? A horse running freely around a paddock may well be experiencing pleasure, but is that the same as being trained to the structure of jump racing with a jockey, running a race etc? Personally I think this is anthropomorphism, and self-justification for the industry.

I have absolutely no doubt these animals are truly pampered, and that they are genuinely cared for and loved, no less than the rather more prosaic animals ridden by my neighbours. My view is however that they are essentially vulnerable. They depend on us utterly to survive and we therefore have a duty to care for them, and as suggested above to take choices on their behalf. Mixed in with that care in horse racing is also a (huge) financial imperative, one that means decisions are taken to accept harms are ‘reasonable’ at a given level. I disagree with that level in a race such as the National.

We protect vulnerable people from harmful choices in their lives, and from those who would manipulate them for personal gain or other motives (for example sport). Animals are vulnerable. We should balance care and harm for the animals under our control. Is that being done in this race and similar?

Bruce

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I always wondered why the horses that unseat their riders continue to race. It happened today, 3 or 4 loose horses ran the National of their own freewill. You could argue that they do enjoy it :thinking:

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…or have been so trained and habituated (and have so little individual will) they know no different. If you put untrained horses in a field with large jumps would they charge around and over them for the fun of it? I doubt it.

Bruce

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Or maybe they are demonstrating an innate herd mentality animals have developed in response to threats over millions of years. Thats not to say they are ‘threatened’ in the race but the desire to keep with the group is so strong that it overrides all else.

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Hmmm…I suspect if I was whipping my otherwise pampered and well cared for cat or dog, up to 7 times over the course of a few minutes, because it needed err…encouragement to get over ever higher obstacles at a pace towards or even exceeding the limits of its ability, for the amusement of a few humans gathered to witness the spectacle, with a strong possibility of serious injury or death to that cat or dog, then the population at large would be more than a little unsympathetic of my actions.

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I gather there was a horse killed at the first fence. They kept that pretty quiet.

Quite

And yet greyhound racing is still a thing in seven countries. The industry is fighting hard to keep it legal here in NZ and Australia, but public opinion has steadily been turning against it. It’s well past time for it to end.

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I hate the grand national and think it’s a disgrace. However I hate normal races the trots and especially greyhound racing as well. These beautiful creatures needless killed for “enjoyment” is imo a crime.

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