The Listening Room Reality

Hi-Fi Corner
42

Thanks for posting this interesting and informative video.

Matching speaker to room is the hardest thing.

It’s relatively easy to treat your room for high and mid frequencies but almost impossible for low frequencies without making major changes or additions to the room, which in a domestic situation is hardly ever aesthetically acceptable.

The best way to tame bass energy is to use the correct size speaker for your room. For my typical UK living room, Harbeth 30.1, ATC SCM19, PMC Twenty5.22 were all a good match that didn’t overload the room with bass energy.

I look at photos in system pics thread where some have large full range speakers costing $$$ in small rooms positioned close to walls and corners and wonder how on earth that could sound any good.

8 Likes
43

By using speakers designed to go close to walls, that’s how, and very careful positioning.

44

I positioned mine (quite big floorstanders) using REW to measure the response, and the best position In my current room turned out to be with the backs just 20cm from wall: but the front baffles, which is what counts, are about 66m from the wall. (However. slightly complicated by the fact that behind the top 60% Of the speakers is window, the glass face stepped back a further 30cm.)

In other, smaller, rooms I have used similarly big IMFs quite successfully - but then, the depth of bass people like does of course vary.

45

Hi Thomas

I couldn’t agree more with you! I am 98% there with my own room treatment. I have spent £2000,- ( GIK, Hofa,Bluetone), which considering the overall cost of my gear is actually peanuts. It has completely transformed my musical listening experience for the better to the point of my Fact 12s finally performing to the best of their ability ie speed, clarity and transparency. It is revelation to finally eliminate excessive bass output/ room modes to be followed by the easier task of managing higher frequency reflections. ATB Peter

3 Likes
46

I’ve yet to read of any forumites trying this unit.

47

I just finished listening to that video, again.

It is really worth the 37 minutes time spent.

The guy really knows what he’s talking about, and the cool thing is that the way he explains things isn’t boring. It is easy to understand (much more then the stuff I spent hours reading).

You should really give it a try :smiley:

It might help those who think that in order to get a better sound one needs a better amp, speakers, etc. If your listening environment allows it, of course, you can get an amazing kick for less money !
I experienced that myself.

Happy new year! :musical_note: :notes: :musical_note: :notes:

–> https://youtu.be/cTnituQu8ig

5 Likes
48

Going from the Supernait 2 + HiCapDR to NAC252DR / NAP300DR was a huge disappointment…
…and quite a slap in the face!

Considering my background it shouldn’t have been a surprise… Never underestimate the power of denial :wink:

This was the start of the living room transformation.

Here are some pictures of the very first step (front wall and ceiling).

IMG_3384
IMG_33844032×3024 1.28 MB

IMG_3387
IMG_33873024×4032 2.44 MB

IMG_3392
IMG_33923024×4032 2.55 MB

IMG_3414
IMG_34142016×1512 1.61 MB

All that work was done with my wife’s help :smiley:

The current treatment includes:

9 x Vicoustic Multifuser Wood 64
3 x Vicoustic Multifuser DC2
24 x Vicoustic Cinema Round Premium
4 x Vicoustic Super Bass Trap Extrem
11 x Gik Acoustics Monster Bass Traps

And, of course, Streamer Pro acoustic curtains.

20 Likes
49

This is a “toy” I’m considering. Very interesting way of managing standing waves!

50

@Thomas how exactly did you know what to install and where. How do results with REW translate?

51

Much as I enjoyed the video I have to say that the things it covers are very basic and could probably have been summarised in a 5 or 6 slide PowerPoint. The key take away really ought be what he says about the need to go for the easy wins; recognise it will cost (but as with power, support and cables it’s well worth it) but also recognise that to do it properly really does require a level of expertise beyond most.

3 Likes
52

The question is pretty straightforward, the answer isn’t.
It is a journey.

Mine started with room measurements, then readings.

Then room mode calculations.
Then understanding that, with a non parallelepipedic room, you can’t calculate room mods.
Then… etc.

Well, I knew nothing.
I knew how to calculate stuff and read complicated stuff. That’s all.

All the needed information can be found on the Internet.
Avoid “forums”, there is a lot of crap out there.

Simple way to understand things are some videos provided by GIK and Vicoustic.
It’s a good point to start.

Then, of course, you can’t avoid REW.

It takes time, and a learning period.
But, in the end, it isn’t that complicated.

1 Like
53

Indeed, it has a cost.
If one decides to do it by it self, it also costs a huge amount of time.
But, it is quite feasible.

54

Ok I get the picture thanks

55

You don’t have to interpret them yourself - GIK can advise what measurements to do, send them the files, and thet can interpret for you and recommend treatment, including telling you what is doing what.

2 Likes
56

:small_blue_diamond:So it is,.and the installation is the most important thing,not what products you have.

I work with the system I call “Room-tunning”,.along with the “Tune-Dem”-method in combination.
Both methods depend on each other.
This must be learned practically,.it is possible to explain theoretically,but requires long practical experience to be good at.

I’ve only used ordinary things that you have in a room,.I’ve tried to avoid “sound things” to dampen,absorb etc.
And so far the result has become good,.but it takes time,a lot of time,.and a lot of practical training.

But Thomas,.this looks very interesting,it will be exciting to follow your journey :smiley:.

/Peder🙂

57

The pictures I posted are old ones, two years ago.
The journey is over.

As mentioned above, the room is now treated.

I’ll play with Roon’s room correction possibilities at some point.

But for now I’m simply enjoying my new speakers :smiley:

2 Likes
58

Thanks for starting this thread long may it run as imho we spend, as I have, a lot of our disposable income on the boxes and cables etc not always getting the best out of it.

We can very often purchase hardware and cables etc as if it resolves issues we feel are within our systems, as I have done in the past, when the issues are partly in our listening environment.

This, as I have already documented on the Forum came to me last year after the purchase of the ND555/555PS, when I felt it was under performing.

In fact it transpired my system was!

One major factor being speaker isolation, the other, speaker environment.

Looking back through the Forum’s archives for tips or words of wisdom, and photos, it became increasingly apparent that the consideration of room treatment comes far too late in our purchase of the hardware.

I totally agree it is a journey, but one that should accompany our hardware purchases enabling us to make more informed decisions.

There does seem to be a trend now to address this.

Perhaps we can also speak in partial rather than absolute terms, can some be better than none?

The effects of over damping the listening environment?

To be honest, I know very little about any of this, but I suspect I’m not alone and certainly for those new to the Naim forum.

There is a lot of information out there and help but I think the value of it is understated especially in the early days of hifi purchases.

Thanks agains Thomas, I hope many more get involved with this discussion as imho it’s as important as ‘ethernet switch & cables mania’, if not more :wink:

Happy New Year

Ps
Haven’t watched the video yet, still on hols, but will do on returning home.

5 Likes
59

A really interesting thread. Couldn’t understand the early reply knocking the video as we all know the room makes the biggest difference (don’t we?). Few of us can go to the lengths shown in the video but at least we should be aware of what can be done and accept the compromise. I have 4 Apple HomePods in different rooms and they all have their own character so it’s obvious the room is the key element.

I have the electronics I’ve always wanted now but if my long term plan goes to plan, a separate room for the system that’s been fully treated is definitely going to happen so get the most out of these Black boxes.

For now, I’ll be happy to get the current room back to normal when the Christmas decorations come down. Today! Happy New Year! :grinning:

1 Like
60

As replied Peder, you can ameliorate the acoustics of your room also with decorative things well placed in the room, add some nice panels on problematic places. A very important thing is also the speakers isolation : if they are well decoupled from the floor, they will less get the room vibrate ( floor and windows).
With a dedicated room, it’s more easy to treat entirely the room. But most of us have systems in living rooms and most wives would not allow a big room transforming.

4 Likes
61

Hi Thomas.

Would be interesting with a couple of photos of the result please? ATB Peter

1 Like