Tru dat!
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I believe I didn’t answer that one, sorry.
It’s hard to have a meaningful opinion unless comparing the two setups in the same room.
I extensively tested my speakers (Magico S3 MkII) with both Soulution and Naim.
Both the NAP 500 DR and the Soulution 711, and even 511, are extremely fast. Both have a firm grip on the woofers and produce a very clear and outlined low end.
But I believe it wouldn’t be fair to compare the Soulution 711 to the NAP 500 DR. It would make more sense to compare it to a stereo version of the Naim Statement if there was one.
I just placed an order for the Soulution 760 and Soulution 711 combo 
The last time I visited the Sound Loft in Zurich, we went the three of us: my wife, my daughter and myself. And I let my daughter choose. She has a far better hearing and very much prefered the Soulution setup 
I’ll have both systems for a few weeks and will be able to compare them side by side.
As I said previously, I have some reservations about writing down my findings when comparing the systems. My written English is far from being perfect or subtle enough to compare the systems without seeming to take sides or diminishing the value of one in favour of the other.
What I can say is that it wasn’t an easy decision to take. The Naim 500 DR series system sounds so good! It is, in my opinion, a state of the art system. If I could, I would keep both systems.
But, I’m not leaving Naim entirely
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Congrats Thomas, and shall be interesting to read a full break down of performance in your room 
Although your Naim gear now gets thrown off a cliff top, remember not to leave us ‘hanging’! 
In humble anticipation Peter
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I won’t ! 
And won’t leave Naim altogether.
Despite a few glitches on the software side, I believe Naim produces very nice lifestyle products.
I plan to buy a Naim QB2 for my daughter.
She deserves it. She took Dady’s side regarding the bigger toys, after all
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You are somewhat off track - First i Deliberately said units of same construction so Bass Throw was included. Second the bass driver example i used was 250mm you calculated a 200mm cone that is naughty.
Thirdly the discussion is of the speakers Bass output performance not various design elements of small drivers.
In case people still have trouble getting my drift - can you imagine a Rock Band with a
dinner plate size Bass Drum.
I cant comment on the blurring effect but when multiple drivers are used for M/R different
freq tolerances are in effect evened out you would have hoped to have gained something
similar with the operation of the bass drivers i am a little surprised you have been able to detect it.
Most any Speaker Designer will tell you privately all they want to do is put the biggest woofer they can in a good sized box however the Marketing Dept. knowing what sells and
trading on the public unknowingless constrains the brief because they know Best!
Witness the explosion of Heritage Wide Baffle speakers coming onto the market finally
they are waking up to the fact the consumer wants a choice!
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OK, 250mm bass driver:
250mm bass driver: cone size ~= 200mm, area = 0.04sq m
150mm bass driver: cone size ~= 200mm, area = 0.013sq m
4 x 150mm bass driver: area = 0.041sq m
Same bass energy coupling at the same frequency, with the same throw and same basic construction (i.e. merely adjusting design parameters for the smaller & lighter cones).
HOWEVER, the 150mm drivers could be designed for longer throw, same Fs but higher first break up mode.
The drum analogy is so deeply and obviously flawed I’m not even going to grace it with comment!
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Well I have made the comment which is just my own view point…I have to say some speakers seem better than others…it could be down partly to cabinet design…but tolerance has to be part of the thing I am hearing… The puriry of varied yet longer sustained bass tones which are pitched closely together…just seems to blur…more… I wonder if others have noticed this. I think the modern tendency for narrow baffles means multiple drivers are required making bass tuning and pitch timing much more difficult…
He does have a point though. A big drivers gets much closer to sounding like a real kick drum. Sure, you can probably do it with multiple small drivers but it just looks weird IMO. Just use a big driver and done. Why does P.A gear use big drivers?
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That’s because you’re comparing a big driver with a small driver, comparing to a small driver ARRAY there’s a lot less difference
Well there’s the rub; you find that weird, some other’s don’t.
Because they’re usually not so concerned with quality, more concerned with volume. Cheap big drivers can give plenty of volume at the expense of having less control and higher distortion.
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I would be interested to know…if you got some good quality 200mm bass drivers…off the production line and tested their parameters…what would be the typical tolerance variation in the bass range say below 200hz??? I have read that Kef had issues with the B110 tollerancing with the LS35A (not sure the upper ranges could have been the main issues with the B110)
It is a long, long time since I had anything to with PA systems. I no longer have any of the books. I think that the meaning of PA has changed somewhat since the 60s and 70s, along with some of the drivers for design. There was always a difference between UK and US because of house sizes and construction. I guess that in that sense Australia is more like the US as it has more space. In the UK house sizes have tended to diminish, builders telling us that gardens are smaller because that is what people want, the reality being that they are trying to cram as many buildings as possible into a space to increase profit. From there, I don’t think it is just the marketing people that want smaller speakers, they have to fit into smaller spaces. Remember that in the 60s mono was just as likely to be the norm so a “standard” 3 cubic foot cabinet doubled up for stereo meant people started looking for smaller designs.
Hopefully @Xanthe may clarify what I vaguely recall, one of the reasons for tall slim cabinets with multiple drivers in PA is that this creates wider dispersion. Presumably, this may also be a benefit in modern smaller designs?
Regarding Kef and the B110, was this not designed as a mid-range driver? It certainly seemed to perform outside the limits. As a teenager, my first stereo terminated in Whitely Stentorians in 3 cubic foot cabinets. They were replaced by HFN/Fris Daline, a one cubic foot transmission line style cabinet where the design parameter using B110 was for 20 Hz to 20 kHz. When I moved to my current home a friend who happened to be a Philips PA engineer wasn’t satisfied to hear the bass, he wanted to measure it, he reckoned there was output, without frequency doubling at 18 Hz.
No, I do not have any documentary evidence, so this is anecdotal. I have written it just as that to offer some balance.
There is a fundamental difference between PA and HiFi
Hi Fi will be optimised for music reproduction, hence is designed to cover the range of musical tones and harmonics (minimum 50Hz to 15kHz) in as even a way as is reasonable achievable (with less accurate reproduction allowed outside this range).
PA systems are often be optimised for intelligibility of voices, hence is designed to cover the range of vocal tones and the important harmonics (typically 200Hz to 5kHz) in a reasonably even way - with less attention being paid to the quality of music reproduction outside of this range, although the degree to which sound quality in the wider range is prioritised varies enormously.
In terms of vertical arrays of smaller drivers; yes, this is often used to improve horizontal dispersion. These systems usually use a single type of driver to cover the 200Hz to 5kHz range.
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In respect of the B110:
So no usable output below 35Hz (and even that’s not a faithful reproduction of the input signal), in reality limited to about 55Hz.
This is a really useful thread - be a shame if it descends into a pointless I’m right you’re wrong thread….,
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Point I was making…is making a speaker with absolute consistency and that performs exactly the same as another is probably almost impossible.
Absolutely true.
Even with the same drive units, the same crossover and in the same cabinet there are still differences - which is why the ‘top line’ speaker manufacturers use matched pairs of components (particularly drive units).
If you go to different components then you’re unlikely to even get close!
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II don’t participate in this thread other than reading it.
At least until now!
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Sorry this is incorrect. The example was 3 x 125mm the 150mm is your creation.
If you wish i will agree 2 x 150mm cones equal a 500mm woofer but they will still not go lower than 45 hz! I think this is what most people understood the Post to be about.