The Listening Room Reality

I found that…REW suggested an almost flat response…I tried it and did not like it…mine is tilted up at the bottom end and gently tails into the highs…by around 1.5 to 2 dB…this just sounds really nice…and is not too analytical…interestingly it follows one of the psycho suggest profiles that Harmon found…and that Bose marketed…

In the 760: “A powerful SHARC DSP performs the 8 x over­sampling to 24 bit/352.8 kHz or 24 bit/384kHz, depending on the digital input signal with the utmost precision. We believe precision of inter­polation is more impor­tant than high clock rates. Our players and D/A converters use an algorithm from the highly regarded Anagram Technologies followed by Burr Brown D/A converters in a digital symmetric configuration. As we consider the PCM conversion technology as superior, the DSD signals get converted before its final D/A conversion.”

Do you know which SHARC DSP and Burr Brown dac chips are in the 760?

Interest stuff this and could raise implementation into our listening spaces regarding our set ups. Interestingly it will appear as distortion and cause loss of detail retrieval particularly affecting sound stage, separation, etc…all the things we are trying to improve by upgrading to the next level of boxes. ATB Peter

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….and another angle on the same thing. Enjoy Peter

Hi @PeterR Peter

I’m just emerging from a hectic two weeks.

The Soulution electronics have probably finished their run-in. All the airiness, layering and details that is Soulution’s strength is now even more there.

This is particularly impressive for choirs and symphony orchestras. Love it!

It’s so natural-sounding and well balanced throughout the spectrum. Voices are effortlessly and beautifully rendered, and so is the piano and symphonic music. An addictive sound, really!

Regarding the pramp, Soulution’s paradigm is different from Naim’s. They have totally different approaches in terms of design.

No, the system would not benefit from a better preamplifier. Because it simply isn’t necessary.

The natural partner for the Soulution 711 amplifier would be the Soulution 725 preamplifier.

But in this case, it is not necessary. If I had an analogue source, then yes. But this is not the case.

The Soulution 760 DAC has an output stage such that it does not need a preamplifier. It handles impedance matching, among other things, with ease and has impressive output power.

The volume is digitally controlled. It was already very good, but now with the implementation of the Leedh algorithms it makes the use of the 725 preamplifier obsolete. I tried both. If the preamplifier had been necessary, I would have bought it :wink:

In terms of sales, this is not really a problem for Soulution. They continue selling the 725 preamplifiers pretty well. Many Soulution fans use a record player, or have multiple sources. Those who only use the 760 DAC save themselves an additional purchase and, above all, save space: a box and cables!

The Soulution 760 DAC is truly a meteor in the DAC world. No need for an extra power supply, no need for an extra clock (quite the opposite in fact, and it can share its own clock). And finally no need for a preamplifier. This means that, in the end, it is not that expensive.

I have put the Absolute Sound article about the 760 on my website for you. Just type the following address : serra.se , add a slash , then 760.pdf

Obviously, they don’t play in the same league.

But that doesn’t take anything away from the qualities of the 500DR!

By the way, I sold my whole system.
Everything went quickly.

All I have left are the Super Lumina speaker cables.

I also considerably lowered the price of the Magico S3 MkII.

As soon as they are sold I will order the Magico M2.

That’s a big change in one go!

The new system will be :

Taiko Extreme / Soulution 760 / Soulution 711 / Magico M2

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Sorry I don’t. All I can say is that the 760 DAC is an extremely good DAC.

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I recently listened to a pair of speakers in a shop.

The shop told me that they would use the Soulution 760 DAC and amps, so I looked at the Soulution site, which prompted my Q about the chips.

Unfortunately the set up of the system in the shop was flawed so it was impossible for me to judge the SQ of the speakers (or the electronics) properly.

But glad to hear you’re enjoying your new system, Thomas.

Jim

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Thanks @anon77199223 ,

If you’re interested in the 760 DAC design, an article on Absolute Sound magazine describes it rather well. Of course, the reviewer’s opinion is to be taken with a pinch of salt (like any other opinion), but the technical part is interesting.

You access that article about the 760 DAC on my website. Just type the following address : serra.se , add a slash , then 760.pdf

Thanks @jsaudio ,

Yes it’s a very nice system. I like it a lot :notes: :smiley:

Regarding the 725 preamp, yes, I tried both setups. The preamp doesn’t bring anything to the 760 DAC.

In fact, they share some of their DNA. I believe the 760 DAC was thought from the ground up to be directly connected to the 711 stereo amp, or to the 701 monoblocs.

Its only weakness was the digital volume control. While very good, the 725 was better.

But now, with their very well implemented Leedh algorithms, the volume control matches the 725.

My dealer seems to sell the 760/711 pretty well, paired with the Magico M2 or Magico M6.

Hi Thomas, fantastic system and great to hear how pleased you are with it. :partying_face: Enjoy Peter
PS. Have you made any progress on your rack design?

That’s the tricky question!

So yes and no.

For some time I have been making progress on a daily basis. Often on details. I’ve had lots of ideas. Some bad, some very bad and sometimes I had a flash of insight.

What you see here is the two-level version before I decided to buy the Taiko Extreme server. The rack will have to have 3 levels.

If you look closely at the X-Ray version of the drawing, you will notice that the inside of the structure contains cavities. These cavities will contain vibration absorbing materials: ISODAMP elastomer. The same elastomer as for the Magico MRack.

I want the whole structure to absorb vibrations. The entire structure will have to be maintained under pressure so that the overall resonance frequency is controlled and high enough to be absorbed. Not simple, not simple at all.

I now understand why the price of the MRack is obscene. The other racks on the market are far behind, even HRS.

I also understand that the price of many “audio” racks is totally unjustified…

The advantage I have over a company is that I have no production constraints. Complexity is not an issue, as there will be only one rack produced.

I have my basic constraints: the compact format and the materials, and the colours, of course. It has to be nice!

I have already fixed some parts of the design and bought :

  • a set of 4 IsoAcoustics Gaia-Titan Cronos
  • 20 IsoAcoustics Orea Bordeau
  • 3 “sound glass” platforms (made of 3 layers)

I’m still scratching my head on the structure (the frame carrying the platforms).

Before coming up with a good design, I built a first rack made with some wooden boards and stainless steel. I needed something to install the Soulutions.

I made a second one of three levels out of plywood, stainless steel and cork. It will be used as a temporary rack. Quite a job! I’ll install it next week. Everything must be ready for the Taiko.

I also need to add an other dedicated mains outlet, but I’ll get an electrician to do that.

Many things left to do…

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Would it be more stable with vertical supports at the 4 corners?

Sorry Jim, I won’t discuss the subject any further. It already went south once. I had to ask Richard to delete the thread. I just answered @PeterR.

As for the poles, check Magico M-Rack design.

No worries.

It looks like a great creative and technical project.

All the best
Jim

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Hi Thomas, certainly you are putting some thought into this and great management of your computer design software. Once you’ve decided on a design, who is actually going to build it for you, and also I’d be curious to learn what you do for a living, if you don’t mind me asking?
Please keep us updated on your high tech progress :+1:t3: All the best Peter

Hi Peter,

I will have every part of the rack made to order. I will do the final assembly and/or glueing myself.

I change my mind all the time. Most of the racks deisgns I’ve seen put their efforts on their platform to absorb vibrations. It’s easier to produce than a complex structure/frame. The platform is decoupled from the structure (the design of the Naim Fraim and racks alike use a different approach).

I would like the structure to absorb the vibrations too. The number one problem is the frequency band to absorb. It’s hard to predict. So you have to make measurements. But for the measurements, you need a laser interferometer. It’s not the kind of tool that can be rented. I’d have to take the rack to the university, to the mechanics’ department, and make eyes at a doctoral student to get access to the interferometer :sweat_smile:. In short, it won’t happen. So the solution is to vary the materials and put the structure under tension or pressure.

Anyway, I’m having fun and will endup with something simple.

The CAD software is SketchUp Pro. Nothing special, it’s a bit of a toy. There are better tools but it would be like killing a fly with a bazooka

I used to work in the computer industry and for some years now I have chosen a quieter direction. I teach mathematics and take opportunities in real estate when they arise. In short, maths is an area I am comfortable with.

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I wouldn’t call it high-tech, more like tinkering :joy:

The major acoustic treatment project will not take place immediately.

I’ve been going a bit overboard lately: the Taiko Extreme, the Furutech set and, I hardly dare say, a complete set of Nordost Valhalla 2 cables (Ethernet, USB, three power cables, interconnects and speaker cables). :partying_face:

So, I’ll do something lighter with absorbing units I can reuse later for the final project.

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Gold. Thanks Thomas for the vid which I found thoroughly interesting and yet oft-forgotten news for many. The room is everything prior the system.

Cheers

Phil P

naimniac for life

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It’s quite a delicate balance, FR… this is also true. It’s not wrong to get the basics sorted prior any system purchase either… hard to say which is the “right” approach… it’s up to each of us to decide how far to take room treatment.

It’s how each of us listens to music differently, in different room contexts and systems… so I think it would be safe to say, we need to acknowledge the importance of the room acoustics for SQ, as started by Thomas’ thread here, and to treat our listening areas accordingly till we are comfortable and happy.

Too much, as FR shared so pertinently, and it deadens and slows the sound, too little and all sonic hell breaks loose anyway.

There was something pointed which Jesco shared in his vid - we need to prioritise what we want for SQ - I would have to agree with his feedback as an acoustic engineer that listening lounges or living rooms aren’t the most ideal for SQ… but hey… life goes on and we need to accept the best compromises we can. Nothing is ever ideal in life.

I much prefer having my own treated listening room in the house for all my loud if sordid sonic sorties… :sweat_smile: :grimacing: That way, I can head-bang till the cows come home and no one would complain I were bothering them. :upside_down_face:

Cheers

Phil P

Lovely room treatment, Thomas!