Great question J
2 box fight out
Great question J
2 box fight out
Special is in the eye of the beholder, please donāt take my word, audition for yourselfā¦
Thatās the right question and further how will the NDX3/SN3 compare ā¦
Iād be willing to bet if you blind tested those against each other as two box systems, without any additional PSUās more ears would prefer the 200 Series over the SN3 + NDX2.
I think that would have a lot to do with the speed and agility of the new NAP 250, that against the power amp in the SN3 is going to expose one of that NAITās constraints against the new boxes in a quite apparent way.
The challenge for me personally is where an NDX 2 sits in a new and as yet unclear 200/300 Series system with an analogue preamp (assuming with a mandatory NPX 300 or similar) and a 200 Series NAP 250. Then youāre already at a 4 box setup to āmove upā from a Supernait based system.
I had wondered if a single box NAC may materialise in 200 Series with the option to be powered externally (NAP or NPX), but potentially not a pre-requisite, then youād have a 3 box system and a logical place for an NDX 2 to feel in synergy.
Green / white / red ā¦ whatever ā¦ Xmas is over.
Iād expect the NDX2 to more than hold its own in the new 300 series of amplification. Iāve had mine since running with a SN2, and now with a 555PS fronting a 552/300 system and itās performance has been excellent through each iteration of amplification Iāve had. There has been a 300 series streamer (NSS 333) flagged elsewhere, and where this sits between the NDX2 and the ND555 with the PX300 options (these are already signalled as being for the entire 300 range of pre-amps and steamer) will be most interesting. For me, Iāll stay with the NDX2, as it visually matches all of classic boxes, which are, well, classic in their styling Maybe when the NSS 333 comes out, a ND555 might become affordable on the second-hand market?
I remember your Supernait days fondly Mike, and you occassionally sharing your amazing views from your lounge of course
Yes, it was a great stepping stone from the Nova (which we still use everyday in the lounge with the view). The NDX2 is an example of how a quality source can take you r-through many iterations of the Naim upgrade path. Obviously the multi-component boxes require āsplitting outā at some point though for upgrading and can be less flexible: the Unitiās, Naimās and now the NSC222. The absence of the digital output on the 222 is a shame in some ways, as many previous Naim multi-boxes have been more flexible with digital or line outputs.
You make a good point Iād probably overlooked myself in that the NDX2 in my case is the component and change thatās had the most impact overall and Iāve also enjoyed it sharing my journey, even as itās been for me somewhat simpler overall.
I demoed the New Classic boxes today at my local dealer.
Iām ready for my next upgrade so before the release last week was looking to add a NAP 250DR to my SN3 and eventually swap out the SN3 for a 282. The New Classics have thrown that approach into question for me so I was keen to hear the differences before making any fast decisions (although I thought the decision was already made before last week ). I did demo today thinking I was in for a serious wallet clearing session, it didnāt quite pan out that wayā¦
My dealer had replicated my system, NDX 2/XPS/SN3/HiCap and set up the 3 New Classic boxes, these had been running in only since last Thursday which may not be long enough. They could not replicate my speakers so substituted a neutral set from Grahams Audio (BBC spec).
I spent some time familiarising myself with the sound of the NDX 2/XPS combo with the Grahams and the listening room, playing test tracks Iād chosen - folk, rock, electronic, operatic, classical.
My dealer then swapped the speaker cables from one rack to the other (note RCA direct swap, not XLR). I played the same tracks on the New Classic combo and added quite a few more familiar tracks as I began to enjoy myself.
This is a summary of what I perceived:
The New Classics are very nicely finished, more contemporary. The white logos stand out proud and are more clearly Naim from a distance, I understand the lighting can be turned down if required. The green logos on the āoldā design were less visible across the room.
Sorry to say I was a little dismayed that the perspex centrepiece of the NSC 222 (which still had the protective film on the front) appeared to show scratches or perhaps rub marks and fingerprint marks. Whilst Iāve read somewhere above that there is some sound quality benefit that led to the bridge design, the existing classics do take a fair amount of wear without showing marks. Remember this unit was only out of the box last Thursday and the dealer was closed yesterday so that doesnāt bode well for any units not enclosed in a rack.
The volume dial on the NSC222 is very smooth in operation and as the volume changes this appears digitally on screen.
Down to the listening, the NDX 2/XPS combo produced a more detailed presentation, fine nuances in the music were more apparent and with more space around instruments. Bass didnāt seem to go so low as my system at home (although difficult to compare that objectively), thatās probably down to the speaker/room differences.
The NSC 222/250/300 combo presented a smoother presentation, less subtle detail but with more slam and richness in the bass. I felt that certain tracks with multiple layers of music at volume got a little muddied as compared to the NDX 2/XPS although the soundstage was much more open and involving. Iād surmise that the NSC 222 was the limiter with the detail, with the amplification/power adding quite a lot, but again run-in and warm-up time may play a part here.
There is no digital out on the NSC 222 so no opportunity to add a more resolving DAC, as you can with the ND5 XS2 and I think thatās a missed opportunity (not that Iād particularly want to fork out for an external DAC having purchased the NSC 222 however).
I would have loved to separate the NSC222 and connect the SN3 as a preamp to the NAP 250 and connect the NPX 300 to the NDX 2 to understand what the old/new combo could do but unfortunately the dealer had not yet received cables (they have to buy them apparently) and was unsure from the information that was available to him if the SN3 to NAP250 Y cable even exists yet. Heāll call me when the new cables are in and if he has versions that will make that connection, or will make some up.
I would also have liked to substitute the SN3 for a 282/250 DR (which were in the demo room) to compare further (as that was my original upgrade path) but unfortunately the dealer was short-handed with frequent visiting customers.
All in all it was an interesting demo, I feel I know more now about the new units but was frustrated I couldnāt explore other connection options. Hopefully I will go back when the cables are available and hear more, this will also give the new units more time to run in. Until then, for me unfortunately, the jury is out.
I can see that an Atom/Nova/Uniti customer could be very pleased with the new offering as an upgrade, only 2 or 3 boxes without all the current add-ons (NAPSC/HiCap/Supercap/XPS/555 PS etc.) and perhaps even ND5XS2 owners (if an outboard DAC is not required). For me, I need to follow through with the 272/250 DR against the new stack (as was intended to be my end game) and with that Iād have one livery in my rack and Iād probably be very happy (although with an rueful eye on the newer models ). Or, I wait for the NSS 333 (or whatever it is called) and retain the SN3 for now, possibly add the new NAP250 and substitute my XPS for the NPX 300 until the āNAC/NSC 3xxā is released. Whether I will be able to afford all of that remains to be seen, Iād guess the new 300 streamer and pre would be quite some over the Ā£5.7k of the 2 series so probably not.
I think everyone with questions should book a demo and hear with their own ears, mine are not golden but I say it like it is for me, I hope thatās helpful to some.
Thatās a really good report back thanks and Iām not surprised by your findings. You probably have some interesting options going forward; go separates with the new 300 pre and power in place of the planned 282/250, or stick with the current plan looking for some discounted prices when the newer models are released, or even go higher up the classic range with some used options. Good luck.
Mr.M
Reading your post and comments about box count, which is understood, wondering if you have thought about active speakers. For example NDX2-> any Naim pre-amp / controller ā ATC SCM40A. As a potential example.
Just curious?
KR
R
Dear @rossd
Just read your experiences with the New Classic pieces and thought that was a detailed and commendable read. Worthwhile. Thanks for sharing the fine details. Your prose is appreciated
KR
R
In the context of what these three new units are replacing, Iād imagine we should place their SQ somewhere between the 272/XPSDR-555DR/250-300DR and 252/NDX2/300DR.
My questions are:
Is the NPX 300 above or below 555 DR level?
Is the new 250DR above or below classic 300DR?
Thank you.
Good questions Dan.S
Time will tell I guess as reviews roll out
The pre of the 272/XPS was not far behind the 282/HicapDR with my LP12. Noticeable upgrade but really took adding the SupercapDR to make a big difference. So I would assume the 222 would be at or above 282/HicapDR.
The streaming side would where Iād think the compromise could be. An ND5XS2 into the 282/HicapDR was a lot better than the streaming side of the 272/XPS.
Youāll probably need to flag those for the attention of Steve if you want a response. However, I suspect the new range is part of a larger total realignment of the offering with few 1:1 parallels. Naim might be reluctant to give an answer in the clear terms you are looking for. But it would be interesting if they did.
Naim fans wanted an updated 272
Naim delivered exactly that finally with a new statement derived volume pot, XLR balanced outputs for those with for example ATC or Focal actives ā¦. and the updated streaming platform ! Wow ! Three upgrades instead of one ! Naim could have easily have put the streaming card inside the existing 272 and sold that and everyone would have been happy
Itās a cracking new product
Now about the comparisons itās well worth to understand the product needs a good month or 2 to run in so a bit early to draw conclusions
And then ā¦. Those who wanted an updated 272 now have oneā¦whatās the point of comparing this against a 282 ?
The only comparison which is really relevant here in my opinion is to compare the 222 against the 272
I think any streamer released starting with a 3 will more than likely be the replacement for the NDX2. It may be a simple recasing to bring it up to date with look of New Classic and realign the numbering.
Have been keeping up with this (now) 2100 post thread and this is about the most meaningful statement I have come across.
Best
Gregg