My take on this is that the old streaming platform is past its sell-by date, and it’s unrealistic to expect Naim to develop it further, and add more services and functionality. Having said that, I don’t buy the notion that it’s technically impossible to add Qobuz support. If it’s possible to support Tidal, I’m pretty sure you can also support Qobuz. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Naim to do this on such old hardware.
What I do think is wrong is for Naim to list the 272 as a current product on their website and pricelist. Sure, many of us understand its limitations, but listing it alongside the Nova, and current ND separates is misleading.
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My understanding is that there are memory limitations that constrain how much more can be shoehorned in to the old hardware. I suspect that they could add QoBuz at the expense of some other functionality, i.e. remove Spotify or Tidal and replace with QoBuz.
It’s unrealistic that they would do this as this would alienate people who use these existing services and having multiple versions of the firmware with different features becomes difficult to support.
There is no issue with the legacy streamers being able to carry on streaming Tidal and Spotify as reliably as they have always done as long as those service providers don’t change their APIs … (how the streamers communicate with the cloud service).
If there are major changes to the original services and for new service including higher bandwidth services like Qobuz, then one really needs to use the benefits of the NP800, the streaming and digital processing boards, of the newer/current streamers. The old streamers are just not robust and capable enough with their network stack hardware for more elastic, higher bandwidth internet based flows. Even Tidal at 44.1/16 FLAC became quite an ordeal consuming much effort of careful optimisation and tweaking of the legacy hardware stack, to still not be reliable for all users in all environments (assuming sufficient internet connection bandwidth). It’s not really a software matter…
This of course was one of the key motivations behind the development newer streamers… as well as creating a streaming source that could match or preferably better the CD555.
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Naim has a strong tradition in making their range of products as ununderstandable as possible.
When the first generation of streamers and servers came out, there used to be a feature table circulating in the old forum. For a given row (device) and column (feature), a checked or unchecked box indicated whether the device supported that specific feature or not.
It would be useful to have a similar table for the new streamers and servers but nowaday Naim does not even publish proper user guides. Thus, it would be very difficult today to compile feature tables even for the classical range of products products.
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Rightly or wrongly I suspect Naim look to their dealerships to provide more specific customer education and differentiation explanations between products.
Add to this the challenge of covering every possible combination of hardware and software setups, there are so many variations could every one be included to make the documentation complete?
That would need to include:
Nd* as transport
Using hardware bridge like sotm
Using software bridge, bubbleupnp
Nas as server
Nd* as server
Using roon
Hard drive directly attached
Using Naim core
Using innuos or melco
One switch, two switches
More variations …
Which one does Naim promote in the documentation? As using Naim core (like in the dem room/shows) is the preferred setup but that’s not forced upon the end consumer.
Some things in that list are nothing to do with Naim (ie using non Naim media servers)…and really are irrelevant (one or multiple Ethernet switches for example).
I take the point that there are severeal combinations, but it’s not nearly as complicated and is far more modular than you suggest in my opinion…
BTW in your list you excluded using ND* as an analogue source as well… 
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I probably shouldn’t have made a list!
I guess I was trying to suggest that if there were a document, how comprehensive would it need to be, and what’s the likelihood of complaints as “my configuration isn’t included”?
That’s where the dealers come in, to assist with setup choices/options.
So … I have 2 “previous gen” units - NDS and SU. I’m not worried as they are (I’ve not tried them) workaround to use Qobuz but … if Linn is able to offer an upgrade why is Naim not able to do the same?
Hi, I also just consider the use of the SonoreUPnP Bridge feeding the NDS as an extension/enhanced/upgrade of the Streamer board.
The NDS was optimized for a UPNP feed - that’s what I am giving it.
It has also been found to play WAV better than FLAC/ALAC for PCM sources - that’s what I am giving it.
Roon’s integration with Tidal & Qobuz is excellent, and really enhances your local library. Never saw that with the Naim App.
I have playback support of Tidal Masters (as well as local MQA files) with the Roon Core undertaking the 1st unfold.
The additional hardware etc. required for this setup is a fraction of the upgrade cost of a NDS to ND555, plus I don’t need the improved WiFi or Airplay support.
I don’t need the colour display, not needed when you have Roon on the control app.
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I use Roon myself, ties a lot of things together in one place very well.
This made me laugh. A product sold that works exactly as described is ripping people off. That’s a new one on me.
If you bought a CD player in the 90’s and a year later HDCD came out, would you think the maker had ripped you off for not offering an upgrade?
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The only required addition for me, is an integration with Discogs to add an index to my Vinyl collection under ‘Versions’
Something I’ve been meaning to do myself.
Do you make digital copies of your vinyl at all?
I’d pondered getting a DSD recorder and making some backups of the harder to source/replace stuff.
I fully understand what @Blackbird refers to,.and streaming-media is a little different from CD-media.
I would never buy a 272 today at new price. Maybe a used one,.but then the price should be Very,Very Good.
/Peder🙂
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It would actually be as simple as a table: for each product/row, just tick the features/columns that are supported. When a new feature is added (or becomes unsupported), tick (or untick) the corresponding box.
No, I would like to understand what I have on Vinyl that is not on the music server, or available streamed.
I could take a csv export from both, I suspose.
No have been using the SonoreUPnP Bridge for over 18 months now.
Absolutely solid & reliable. All the benefits of Roon with an NDS/555DR, fully optimized for a WAV playback stream coming in over UPnP.
In fact Naim made big points about getting the NDS to undertake the minimum amount of processing with WAV over FLAC, to reduce current take from the PSU. So why run the Roon Endpoint software on-board on the ND555. Surely the RAAT protocol stack, endpoint management and rendering of the album image takes processing, and therefore injecting unnecessary noise into the audio conversion.
Built a NUC with ROCK as soon as it came out.
Had been using Roon for a while before as a Library Management tool, as a Beta user.
The UI and developments of the Naim App, when used with a 3rd Party UPnP Server wasn’t doing it for me. I have Asset R6 on a RPi2.
Was not going to be conned into paying over £2k for a Linux or Windows server to run a UPnP server (UnitiCore/UnitiServe).
Melco runs Twonky, which is worse than having your finger nails pulled out (had than running on a NAS serving a ND5XS with the earlier Naim App).
So this solution works very well. The Roon Core running on ROCK is up with the NAS units, in the study/home office. Just select the zone for the NDS & press play.
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I went through an extended evaluation cycle looking at audio servers and establishing what I really needed from one.
In the end I upgraded a dormant Mac Mini Server with 2x 2TB Samsung SSD’s and run Roon Core from it and store all music on it too.
If I have occasion to import audio from CD I do that using XLD and the rest is mostly taken care of within Roon.
That Mac Mini is hard wired in to an Ethernet Switch which in turn is connected to a separate Ubiquity Router.
@simon.pepper has outlined an elegant solution for utilising his very capable NDS + PSU to extend its capabilities beyond those supported by Naim natively in Software.
Yes, my Gigabit backbone router just for NAS and NUC. The WLAN AP is connected separately to the Firewall, along with the Fibre Router.
On a RPi2 in the frontend subnet
On a Sonore device. In my case an UltraRendu with a UltraCap LPS (only because I got an upgrade from a SoSE, which didn’t run SonoreUPnP well).
These ‘frontend’ components are on an Uptone EtherRegen, so UltraRendu, RPi and upstream feed on the A ports. The NDS is on the dedicated isolated Port B.
I have posted an image of my network, with just the audio streaming elements and how I have optimized it for audio stream playback.
Now the Small Green Computer (SGC) Servers, run the Roon Core and the SonoreUPnP bridge on one device.
See https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i5?variant=20893269700
Else get a 2nd hand NUC, mine is a 2015 NUC5i3, as you don’t need WiFi, Bluetooth, dual 4K/8K displays. Will need 8GB RAM and a small SSD, but very easy to build and install.
SGC also offer a dedicated device to run the SonoreUPnP. This wasn’t available when I built my solution.
See https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories/products/upnpbridge?variant=6964135395362
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