The Truth... When Its Not Nice

I remember as a kid being a big fan of Gary Glitter,


Yup. GG didn’t seem to be any more ‘odd’, that his contemporaries…??

I remember when Private Dancer was launched I just loved the music, then learned more about Tina Turner. Did it change my perception of her music? I don’t think so, (but it’s been a while).

A more recent case: I have a good collection of James Levine, and that guy must have been as bad as a man can be, abusing his power and position. Do I like his music less now? The answer is definitifely no.

To me, music is good or bad (highly subjective of course), not subject to moral standards.


Well said. I might add - to todays moral standards - maybe…?

Wow, Thea I never knew. Have all of her stuff and met her a couple of times and she was a very nice person and the only person who I could ever imagine doing justice to the Sandy Denny songs that she recorded.

Will get the new album asap.


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I enjoy The Albion Band in which Philip Pickett played recorders and early woodwind instruments. Occasionally play The Bones of All Men his album with Richard Thompson. Pickett abused his students at the Guildhall music school and was sentenced to 11 years for rape and assault in 2015.

Sadly classical music conservatoires have tended to push student complaints under the carpet. The one-to-one teaching in soundproof rooms makes students vulnerable. Pickett was made a Fellow despite earlier concerns about him.

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And, of course, I always used to listen to John Peel.

Personally I can’t listen to music made by someone who has subsequently been accused/convicted of sexually abusing children or woman or anybody for that matter it sickens me to such a degree that I can no longer bring myself to play their music.


Have listened to Afterlight now several times and I think it’s the best she has ever done.


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I wish I could… My copy has not even been posted - after almost a week now… :unamused:

But… your report is encouraging… :smiley:

That would be Lori Mattix/Maddox then. She has also admitted a (very) underage relationship with Bowie.

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She would certainly be one, yes… Involved with Page and as you say, Bowie.

Guess we’ve got to add The Kidd Creole to the list now…

The Rapper The Kidd Creole real name Nathaniel Glover not to be confused with Kid Creole and the Coconuts, he’s August Darnell. Glover stabbed a homeless man to death and is yet to be sentenced.

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Yes, correct. Sorry for any confusion.

No worries, Mike. I bet there will be confusion though…

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You might edit your post, to correct it… :thinking:

Phew. I was worried there, having seen KC&TC a long time ago. He/ they were great fun.


Me too Steviebee, that’s how I came to discover the rapper had such a similar name. I couldn’t believe it of KC&TC!


This issue covers most art and a lot of other history.

  1. The past is another country - and so are other countries. Romeo & Juliet were about Lori Maddox’s age when she first met Page IIRC. France set 15 as the age of consent in 2021, but it is still 13 in Japan. We can also note Wagner’s extreme (even by historical standards) anti-semitism, which is certainly not absent as an influence on his work. Examples abound.

  2. None of that stops us judging people with the knowledge and views that we have today, but it does mean that context is important. It also means that a vast proportion of all great artists and composers could have been appalling people (and quite possibly paedophiles by today’s standards), and people of the time may simply not have made a record of it that we got. As a result, if we can only enjoy music where all concerned definitely behaved in what we regard as acceptable ways, at least in general during their lives, we are probably going to listen to little music from before about 1970 and almost nothing from previous centuries.

  3. This sort of thinking can’t be taken too far. A lot of shameful and criminal behaviour by musicians that we know about now didn’t happen in the distant past but in the last 30 years and don’t fall into any grey areas of context at all, and many of those artists still get royalties. Wagner may not get paid every time someone streams Parsifal, but plenty of the musicians mentioned in this thread are still earning. So, even if their recordings don’t highlight/ support their attitudes or behaviour, we each have a judgement call to make.

  4. On the specifics mentioned above, it is worth looking at Wikipedia et al. As I understand it, there is (to put it mildly) contradictory evidence about Maddox’s more recent claims about David Bowie, Jeff Beck, Angela Bowie, Keith Emerson and others. That really can’t be said of the basics of her time with Jimmy Page.

  5. Personally, I rarely have a problem keeping singer and song separate in my head. We are used to Bowie’s characters, but all musicians are actors - the alternative view would mean believing that Hendrix was a big supporter of domestic murder (Hey Joe) and that Joan Baez (too many to mention) shared that view, that Jacques Brel was an extreme homophobe, and that Jagger is the misogynist that many see in a lot of their biggest hits and really did have a lot of Sympathy For The Devil.

In much the same way, I am currently playing Alanis Morissette singing You Oughta Know - it may express a stance that I don’t endorse or think leads to happy life, but it is brilliant. I have quite a lot of music by the justifiably angry that should probably be appreciated in much the same way.

If we can all agree that keeping singer and song separate in our minds is quite reasonable when thinking about first-person lyrics, it may well be possible to do the same about great music from people who have behaved very badly/ criminally in the past. Apart, as I say, from checking that we are not unhappy about whom and what we are endorsing if we still stream or buy new LPs…

Sorry about the length. How do other people see this?