Tidal Connect

When I play a MQA file from Tidal via Roon, the Naim app shows its playing a hi-res file, for example:

Yes, that’s correct behaviour. The Naim App is just showing the PCM decode of the MQA that has been unfolded by Roon.

1 Like

That’s because you’re using Roon.

Hi @ChrisSU

Re: Naim vs Tidal vs MQA

When a manufacturer decides to support TIDAL their unique access key has properties attached to it which include lossless format preferred and also if MQA is supported. To get the latter requires the product to be MQA certified.

When a TIDAL stream is requested to be played the product can give a hint on the quality wanted (naim = lossless by default). On Tidal’s server lots of if/but logic is done based on users subscription, country, what the device can play, the quality hint + actual quality tidal have and eventually a stream is returned to be played. We at Naim duly play it. TIDAL Connect uses similar logic so it’s more a preference if the end user prefers using the TIDAL app or ours - they have different pros and cons. The MQA encoded streams are not sent to a non MQA TIDAL enabled product.

The provenance of these lossless streams are however unknown and maybe totally bit perfect as signed off by original mastering engineer, or may have a bit of a questionable history as its gone through the labels & distribution channel. In the days of CD it was not uncommon to see some releases that have been bounced though DAT machines, analogue n’th generation copies, audio watermarking etc. I have various CD’s where they were HDCD encoded by the studio, but the encoding (and recording) was unintentionally damaged later on by the record labels.

On MQA the provenance in theory is handled. Aka a blue light should indicate that the audio was signed off by a trusted source, a green indicates otherwise. Bob did a good article on this here: https://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqa-philosophy/mqa-authentication-and-quality/#
It is unknown how much has been batch encoded by the permission of the label/publisher vs carefully tuned by an experienced mastering engineer to sound right when replayed through the MQA process. This key factor can seriously muddy the waters on audio performance when dealing with any algorithm that is reducing data in a lossy manner or trying to optimise things. A software algorithm has no tuned ear for music and subtleties of the original performance, so anything being batch encoded will be a bit hit or miss if it achieved its performance goals or not.

Best wishes

Steve Harris
Software Director
Naim Audio Ltd.

7 Likes

Thanks for the explanation, Steve.

Surely the whole point of the blue light/green light thing is to verify exactly this. Otherwise ‘Master Quality Authentication’ is, by definition, a sham, or am I missing something?

Hi @ChrisSU

As mentioned in my earlier post its unknown how many MQA encoded albums have been done to the original principles that the system intended (recording chain compensated, mastering engineers give the sign off etc) , or has just been pushed through the encoder to get the numbers up. I suspect the harsh realities of business means that to achieve a critical mass of material they need to automate processes and try and get the encoders as smart as possible.

I’ve got a lot of respect for MQA Ltd. though. They have encouraged labels to release material in high def formats as a standard expectation now and in practice the company / investors have lost loads of money per year on achieving their goals (search ‘Company House MQA Ltd’ in Google - they’re normally 4.5-5 Million in loss each year). They have a long way to go still to make the business profitable.

With my Naim hat off, I think the real area of improvement is not in the actual delivery format, but it’s in great production and mastering and I would like to see on higher budget productions where they release different mixes and masters. One for car/smart speakers/small devices/radio that need to go loud and proud. Then a studio mix where they mix it without all those commercial restrictions - higher dynamic range, less heavy handed use of compressors, get the layering in the tracks really landscaped. Series like Mix With The Masters ( https://www.youtube.com/user/MixWithTheMASTERS/ ) shows that there is still a lot of great guys and gals out there who are doing some fantastic audio engineering stuff and getting beautifully crafted recordings delivered to a decent streaming system in the native format that they used in the studio is the way to go.

Best

Steve

13 Likes

I find using qobuz through the naim app generally ok. But one frustration is that the playlists do not show up in full through the app if they are long playlists. eg, I have a playlist of nearly 1000 tracks and it does not show fully when using qobuz using the naim app. In lieu of qobuz connect, any chance of this being remedied?
Apologies if this has been asked before.

Any more news on the Tidal Connect update? I know there are a few software projects (Spotify HiFi, Qobuz Connect) under development and I don’t want to sound ungrateful for a free update, but we’re approaching 7 months now.

It’s in testing right now - should be available from the summer. As soon as I have more details, will share.

1 Like

Hey Clare - good news it sound still on track. What are Naim defining as summer - and is there space on the beta to help test?

I can’t be more specific on dates, i’m afraid. I think we’re good on Beta testers - we expanded the group a lot last year - but please feel free to email beta@naimaudio.com to check with our software test team.

You say that Clare many beta testers have moved to Qobuz and may not want to set up a Tidal account again?

Which is why it’s always best to check with our Software Test team :slight_smile:

1 Like

I looked at the Tidal Connect page on Tidal and can’t for the life of me see what it does that you can’t currently do through the Naim or Tidal app…… it just allows you to stream to your device - yippee

It’s like Spotify Connect in that you can use Tidal native app which is much better than Naim in that Naim doesn’t have all the features available.

1 Like

But you can use the native Tidal app, and stream to a Naim streamer using Chromecast. The app controls the music selection and streams direct from the internet to the streamer. The connect feature lodes the add anything you can’t already do.

Why would I use Tidal Connect instead of Chromecast?
Two reasons: 1) Gapless playback; 2) MQA Masters. Neither is supported by Google’s Chromecast.”

1 Like

Ah, yes. Well I hope MQA compatibility is added first then!

Is that correct, that Tidal Connect will play MQA music via the Naim app? I didn’t think it would be able to unfold the music? I’d agree with @Mike_S that its just another way of streaming direct.

1 Like

I don’t think so,

2 Likes