I never bothered about ethernet switches until I started reading related threads on this forum and thought of giving it a try. Yesterday I added a rather basic TP-Link switch between the N272 and the wall ethernet plug (itself connected to a router through probably rather low quality ethernet cable) and was really pleased with the result. It clearly improved SQ. In my system, room, ears, etc…
Nah ! “different” but not necessarily universally “beneficial”.
And I would take “with a pinch of salt” the euphemistically enthusiastic “improvements” described by some people on this Forum.
4 Likes
I think that is a very astute observation and aligns with much of my tweakery experience over the years.
2 Likes
Seems we have a sudden outbreak of commonsenseitis, it’s hit this thread & both the switch threads, I wonder how long before a cure is found.
2 Likes
Come on Mike, throw in a curved ball to stir things up again.
2 Likes
OK, here’s a curved ball.
I have just swapped out two posh streaming cables for basic (and far cheaper) CatSnake 6a ethernet cables. Not just different but simply better SQ in a number of ways, all IMHO of course.
There are a couple of forumites, including Stephen Tate of this thread, who are about to receive CatSnake 6a cable, so it would be great to hear their views.
Salt ‘n’ pepper of a lovely peppercorn sauce?
4 Likes
For whatever reason, I simply can’t get that 500 v Vitus Thread out of my head …
2 Likes
I couldn’t agree more, there are often posts here from people who are considering a move from CD player to streamer but who are deterred because of what they have read in some of these threads. They seem to think that an elaborate and expensive LAN is essential to get decent performance from a Naim streamer. Having done my fair share of networking tweakery in the past, I do not believe this to be the case, and it annoys me sometimes that people are either put off streaming altogether, or willingly divert a substantial portion of their budget to networking hardware in the belief that only posh/boutique/audiophile grade stuff is up to the job.
8 Likes
I had a phone call last week on exactly that; a friend currently with CD & TT is/was/is thinking about streaming, he’s been reading this & the Linn forum for quite a while & convinced himself it was far too difficult. The maniac thread, the need for multiple switches, cables costing a kings ransom etc…
Anyolways, he now knows what I have (K.I.S.) & has a demo arranged at a dealer sometime.
1 Like
When i bought my Nds 5 years ago, I followed Naim recommendations : put a basic netgear switch and basic cat 6 /7 cables.
It worked, the sound was better than going straight from the router.
But I tweaked progressively the network, added linear ps, other more expensive ethernet cables, Cisco switch, and finally Etheregen / linear ps with Audioquest diamond and vodka from router.
Nobody is obliged to do that. The total cost is around 3 k.
However the sound quality increased progressively and it’s so much better than at the beginning that I have absolutely no regrets.
The same for powerblocks. Naim doesn’t recommend fancy powerblocks. However it gives very substantial improvements also, and even more if the cable to the wall is very good. A lot have reported their enjoyment with Musicworks powerblocks.
It’s the same logic. You can improve the power and also the network. Or just stay with basic recommendations from Naim. You have the choice.
6 Likes
Hence my plea for Naim and the dealer network to make this potentially off-putting side of streaming a simple and straightforward experience that takes the onus off the inexperienced end-user.
A recommended basic (but proven) set of kit needed to complete the link between router and streamer, and yes I do believe a switch is necessary here, but it need not be posh, and a dealer network prepared to not only install the streamer but additionally install the link to the router if the customer needs that support, would be a good start.
This added support, and the availability of a one-stop shop to get streaming, would surely give many the confidence to make the transition from CD to streaming. Who knows how many ‘technophobes’ are currently held back from streaming by their ‘fears’ of the supposed complexities.
Once a new streaming customer is up and running, and as their expertise and confidence in streaming grows, they can choose to try different tweaks, or not. But if they don’t make that initial leap (mostly from CD to streaming), it is all academic.
i work in the financial sector, specifically in the ultra low latency networking sector which allow companies to connect to electronic exchanges in the most efficient way possible. Hence i do have some expert knowledge in the area of networking and minimizing electrical interference. While i am not a great believer in SOHO home networking kit has so much interference that it would effect streaming performance. However there are some products that claim to reduce noise via upgraded electronic see here https://bit.ly/2B4eStr . However IMO the net benefit here is negligible. One upgrade that one might consider is move to a separate switch for your audio devices to minimize the cables in use on a switch, however again i cant really think this would reap any major benefits in terms of sound quality.
3 Likes
I agree with the thrust of this thread. I dont think Naim should/need to endorse any particular products, but what would be really good is if they could publish a guide to networking setup.
So maybe 3 levels: basic, just from your ISP modem/ router; intermediate and advanced. Also they should encompass recommendations for those of us, like me, who will only use wifi or powerline to connect to the streamer.
As it happens I have tried both methods, wi fi from my BT smart hub1 and using devolo lan magic powerline as well. I can hear no difference between the 2, but accept they might both be omproved by a more sophisticated set up.
1 Like
I wonder what happened to him?
I heard he was arrested as a Russian spy … they’re all odd around Salisbury - I was watching that Salisbury Poisoning thing on TV at the weekend and he just vanished overnight so it might be true?
Boasting huh? Man, he sounds like a right arse if he was boasting about that …
Not necessarily … if a shop is a franchise - as that one was - then the people running it may not be allowed to bring in external IT support.
In that case all the shops in the chain are/were served by a single IT support company who were tasked to make sure that the essential systems in the shop (the electronic tills, the card machines and the shop PCs) were working correctly and were ‘secure’ … they were not contracted to ensure that the shops had good enough WiFi coverage throughout the building to allow audio streaming to be stable nor were they tasked with ensuring that the systems there supported the various discovery protocols that the devices and apps use so in many cases had nailed those down.
As I remember at the time the discussion was about not needing to go out and spend hundreds of pounds on an expensive router or expensive cables or expensive network switches for a system to work reliably and the example given was of a fairly well populated but unreliable shop system being able to be made reliable on a £19.99 router.
How about “You can’t tweak yourself into having a reliable network but you can tweak yourself into having an unreliable one…”?
Resist the urge to ‘HiFi it up’ from the outset and get yourself a reliable and properly working baseline to start from - then fiddle and fettle to your hearts content as you can always go back to something that works properly when you break it… 
I think many do have a reliable home network when they keep it simple. My observation is is when one tries to ‘Frankenstein’ it together… putting switches on the the end of remote wifi hosts or, powerline adapters, or use a mix of components like multiple ‘routers’ or ‘wifi access point vendors’, or even use some off the shelf home router devices with lots of ‘consumer bling’ as opposed to using one’s, these days usually very capable, ISP provided routers, then things can fall apart and ‘mysteriously’ become unreliable.
Keep it simple and all is usually fine. I bought an Amazon echo dot recently, a product aimed clearly for the masses with no prior ‘technical’ knowledge … great little device… was there a guide on setting up a home network… of course not… there are too many options… just a simple guide of setting up wifi connectivity… setting up a home audio system need be no different.
I think what many people are really asking for from Naim is advice on tweakery… and I doubt Naim will ever go there. As far as setup Mike-B of this parish has produced a simplified/stylised setup diagram… it’s probably all you need
Sure when it comes to cables, which are not really anything to do with home network functions, then we possibly might see a a Naim Ethernet cable… but even that probably has long odds.
2 Likes
I remember the former staff member well and he was not “an arse”. Many of us miss his presence here, I am sure. I think he wasn’t really boasting at all, but rather explaining that you needed a good router, but it didn’t need to be anything special. This was a common theme of his advice.
Best
David
3 Likes
Yes indeed, & sad to say Naim support is so much the poorer without him.
3 Likes
To be fair, I’d say there were two of them who have since departed, both sadly missed.
3 Likes
You might be confusing matters. Sample stream reclocking (in USB or SPDIF for example) has no relation or relevance on Ethernet frame reclocking supporting TCP transfers.
For our uses Ethernet does not offer a stream of audio samples… it is more like chunks of sample data like a jig saw than are reassembled with each other… and when sufficient jigsaw pieces fit together… they are passed up to the renderer as a block of file data… This data or file can then be serialised into a SPDIF or i2S stream within the streamer DAC. The serialisation clock here is very sensitive… and Naim take good care of it… instability here in the internals of the streamer / DAC will produce sample play out jitter.
Coincidentally Salisbury is the first city in the UK to be upgraded to become ‘fully fibre’ to the customer end-point.
The customer trials are starting and the plan is that all (Openreach-connected) customers will be migrated to FTTP by 2022…whether and how this influences Naim for the next generation of streamers remains to be seen; noting that Sonore already offer the ‘OpticalRendu’. The actual implementation will also depend on the ISP-supplied router/modem.
You can use your favourite search engine to find out more.
1 Like