As the OP on this thread - can I just thank everyone that has contributed to this discussion - my original questions of whether anyone had made the switch from a HiFi Racks setup and whether they have noticed any sonic improvement have been directly answered - Thank you
There’s also been some great challenges made to the discussion which helps to bring a different perspective. HiFi choice is a very personal thing - Naim vs Linn vs Cyrus vs ANOther etc. This choice continues to choice of rack, cables, mains etc.
The key is to try things for yourself and see whether the changes improves the music to YOUR ears. I can’t measure the improvement of my latest upgrade from a non DR NAP-200 to a NAP 250DR except that my it just sounds better - AND SWMBO simply said wow - that sounds good (without realising I had swapped a box for another identical one in all appearances)
Excellent stuff. Just to reiterate, I would like a Fraim setup one day. I am just not sure I understand how they can possibly do the things they claim to do beyond look incredible.
I recently caused a mini stir in a claim on this forum that I could hear differences in ripped CDs treated or not with L’Art du son cd cleaner spray.
With a few requesting I take an analysis of before and after to verify the claim.
I don’t recall any other thorough evidence put forward to back up other tweaks needed by others.
Perhaps a digitally recorded section of music played. Then a visual comparison of the recordings through different stages of swapping out boxes and racks are needed.
I think this part is fairly easy to explain, as it’s just physics. Vibrations can’t travel through a point, so using steel balls to separate a shelf from a base, for example, reduces the area of contact to close to a point. Fraim does this twice for good measure, for every shelf.
Minimising vibration is good. Then it’s a case of deciding on the shelf material. I imagine this is where things get complicated comparing glass with plastic, wood, metal, etc.
I totally get that side of it, especially for turntables or anything with valves. What I do not get is how these vibrations are meant to affect solid state items. If they did, then the crossovers in speakers would be outboard of the cabinets, way off to remain isolated.
Remember that most transformers buzz or hum. The minute vibrations of electricity going from one state to another will cause some concern to nearby chips, output devices and wiring.
I’m guessing these are cancelled out or brought to ground by the conflicting resonances in the Fraim. Thus tuning them out.
Quite a few high end loudspeakers have indeed an outboard crossover or go to some lengths to minimise vibration contamination.
Interesting interview with Steve Sells on design, includes this comment:
Well, if you have a PCB with a surface mount
resistor on it, the board flexes and stretches and compresses the resistor in response to soundwaves, modulating the resistance of the device, and of course this is happening slightly out of sync and phase with the signal passing through the component
If you want a truth, if not the truth, it’s because we buy into this stuff and are happy to accept it, esp given that it usually proves to be correct. It doesn’t (at my end) need measurements or stat sheets that can explain how something gives an improvement, it just requires consensus that A is better than B, or A is better than Not A and that as a buyer I can perceive that improvement.
I used to think the same, about the Fraim, and cable dressing - how on earth can that make a difference? Lord knows but I gave it a go and lo, it did. Improvements aren’t ever night & day, just incremental. But when you have a pile of boxes in your living room that cost more than next door’s car coughing up a little bit more to make it a little bit better still, is the sensible move.
It’s nothing to do with using solid state electronics - it’s electromagnetism - the theory behind electric motors and cathode Ray tubes (current flowing in wire in magnetic field experiences a force) and generators/transformers/ TT cartridges (a moving conductor in magnetic field experiences an induced electric field).
I guess I am interested in what within a Naim device is affected by this, to what extent, and by how much does the Fraim reduce this affect? If it is not the solid state electronics then what is it?
This stuff should be measurable. If something sounds different, then the audio signal can be measured. It should be evident in a recording made under controlled conditions.
The Steve Sells interview that was linked further up gives an example, PCB’s vibrating and deforming. Other possible examples in the Wikipedia article. Again, this would not be limited to Naim devices, but Naim chooses to address it.
The amount of vibration should be, yes. The resulting audio too, I guess. In the Naim world, most people seem satisfied if it sounds better to the ears. You may not agree with Naim not publishing detailed measurements as far as I am aware, but it’s what it is
In a Naim video that is on Youtube, about Statement IIRC, a Naim engineer mentions that they realized the issue when they directed a speaker onto a component board and saw the effect in an oscilloscope, IIRC
Google Microphonics for starters (Wikipedia link above). There are lots of vibrations, conductors and alternating currents.
As someone with HiFi Racks Akorner with added glass, I’d say that it’s not simple to find fault with them. A weakness is that natural wood can warp and that may result in the spikes not sitting nicely in their cups. I haven’t adjusted mine for more than two years. It was hit and miss before. I also use mostly long legs (24cm separation). In theory these are less stiff and could resonate differently. I wanted greater box separation to reduce EM coupling between boxes, including three racks. The supplied floor spikes may not penetrate carpet easily which could have an effect.
As for SQ I’m very happy. Great natural sounding. Very fast and dynamic. Definitely not dull or HiFi - just musical. Wonderful bass and soundstage.
Plenty of people on this forum don’t use Fraim. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve nothing against Fraim. Quite fancy Silver and a lighter colour wood.
That’s the big issue I have with FRAIM. Aside from being poor value for money (relative to other NAIM products), it just makes an equipment rack too wide. Focus on the black boxes!
Sole reason for me not having a Fraim, I just cannot fit two stacks as they would protrude into a natural walking path. 20 cm less wide for the two stacks, overall, and I’d be a happy Fraim owner. I do think it looks nice the way it is, though, and I suppose it works. Can’t make everyone happy.
