Trusting our Ears

I don’t like the sound signature very much. I will soon try them again to see if I still feel the same.

I assume you’ve left them running in for at least 100 hours. How would you describe the sound signature?

A set of headphones should sound at their best from day 1. I have only noticed an improvement in sound, with new pads when the old ones have worn out or lost their form. I cannot see how any part of the headphone might show a significant and audible benefit from being run in.

Being cynical, I am certain “burn in” is a ruse dealers use to cut down on returns. I am not alone in this opinion.

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I EQ everyone of my HP’s with custom curves. Whilst this makes a considerable difference some fundamentals need to be right.

Whilst I am in agreement with your final paragraph, certain components have parts that are subject to subject to mechanical flexing, the most notable being bass drivers cone suspensions, and the mechanical compliance of materials used in making these are known to change in use from their freshly manufactured state to one accustomed to flexing. With speakers my understanding is that this may take a few tens to low hundreds of hours, the louder they are played with bass heavy music or tones the quicker they run in. Of course ideally a manufacturer would do that before selling, and for all I know some may. My last three speakers were bought secondhand so I can’t comment on them, and with the ones before I can’t say I noticed any difference over the first few days/weeks, but then I am not sure that I’d expect to have been able to reference the sound each day or weeks to the previous, unless I resorted to measurement.

I would expect the much smaller movement of headphone drivers to suffer less change in the initial days of use, however I don’t have specific mechanical data to be definitive.

Out of curiosity, do you do that with speakers as well, or do you only use headphones?

Agree. I remember Erin of Erin’s Audio Corner (Youtube) saying that speakers will only deteriorate with use, they won’t improve … otherwise they would just get better and better with age which they don’t. He clearly doesn’t believe in suspension and surrounds becoming more flexible etc and I tend to believe the guy. He’s somewhat an authority on speakers even if he does not like that banner.

Having said that, I have old speakers at home that sound (to me) fantastic.

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That both makes sense and doesn’t make sense. Schrödinger’s speakers?

When new they are not at their peak. They get to that peak sometime after first use. After many years they may become so ‘loose’ that they rattle or the electronics will deteriorate. So yes there is a peak window but it isn’t at first use.

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Audio memory is so short lived, you would not detect a difference over a few hours, even days and weeks. You may think you do though :+1:

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I disagree. Every pair of new speakers I have had needed a running period before settling to their ‘normal’ sound. Nothing to do with my changing perception.

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Like I always say, if it works for you, it works

Yes but as I use Roon it is limited to streaming. For CD I have a Chord DAC but as it does not allow programmable curves I just use it in the flat position. No EQ for vinyl.

Presumably the same limitations for headphones? Or do you have a headphone amp that allows such things?

I use Headphones almost exclusively for streaming. The separate HP amplifier/DAC does not allow for EQ but Roon does.

Really? That is counter common guidance and even some manufactuers’ guidance. Apart from very cheap low fi headphones - every pair of headphones I have ever owned from Sennheiser, Apple, Focal, Meze, Grado have taken some time for the transducer suspension to bed in and loosen resulting in a modest improved signature - usually a slight increased tightness as it were,

With well used second hand headphones I have have not noticed this change.

The same goes for loudspeakers which have the same traits - I have noticed higher end car hifi speakers also exhibit this.

Of course if from new the headphone sounds broken you should return it - this bedding in is a subtle change over 72 to 60 hours of use. Headphones are easy to run in - so no excuses really.

One must not ignore the headbands and phone supports etc, they can be a little tight at first so the phones are not optimum over the ear or on the ear, but they loosen up over time to help a more optimum positioning, but this for obvious reasons varies with headphone design.

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Though nearly all quality and higher end headphones are already quite heavily eq’d to reasonably follow the Harman curve - that is eq’d to match the human hearing frequency sensitivity and anatomical shape of head and shoulders with respect to ears affecting the heard sound across the audio band - most noticeable for for music and speach,

Flat response phones - such as you might use in specialist applications often dont sound at all attractive or convincing for music.

Doesn’t mean they’re either perfect nor that they can’t be further adjusted to personal taste.

Take different ear size just as one example. The room inside a HP pad will make a difference to what you hear if you believe that the pads make as large a contribution to sound as I do. Then there is frequency limitations to hearing as we age to name two.

Headphone designers, as for speakers make what they perceive to be correct. We don’t always have to agree.

The Harman curve is also not universally regarded as being the best EQ for headphones. Variations exist.

Of course not - I was just saying they are already eq’d and not flat = but you can clearly adjust further if you wish to suite personal tastes

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I admit this is a difficult one. My PMC speakers talk about burn in in the instructions. My Sennheiser HD850S, Beyerdynamic T1 and my Heddphone 2GT, do not mention “burn in” in the instruction manual. I can see the logic too.

Here are a couple of quotes from DIY Audio Heaven, a site with some deep testing of and reviews of headphones:

More than 24 hours isn’t really needed IMO. The often mentioned 100 hours (5 days) is a bit over the top, no idea who launched that number in the first place.
Other than for some tests I have done, I never gave any of my headphones a ‘break-in’ period and just start using them.
Aside from 2 or 3 HD681’s that sounded bass-less or bass-shy in the first few minutes, I never heard or measured substantial differences in sound. The majority of HD681’s I handled to be modified all sounded the same to me.
I don’t feel a ‘burn-in’ or ‘break-in’ period is really needed before we can truly evaluate electronics or should even listen to a headphone.

Speakersare known to change their properties over the first time period. This depends on make and model. The audibility of this depends on the type of cabinet (ported or closed) as well. …offers objective proof of speakers changing their properties and how much over a time period between 1 minute and 80 hours.

For electro-mechanical-acoustical components like headphone drivers it is clear that break-in exists BUT …. the audibility of this remains to be seen.
From a technical viewpoint warm-up and break-in is real but think brain-in is just as real.
IMO the many ‘reports’ of ‘considerable’ changes in sonic signature are greatly exaggerated or could be attributed to other reasons than an actual change in performance/sound.
Of course, what some may call substantial may be marginal, not worth mentioning or inaudible to others.

So before one says .. burn-in/break-in is real and I can clearly hear the improvements one may have to wonder if these perceived improvements are ‘real’ and caused by actual changes in the driver or that they may be caused by ‘brain-in’ (getting used to/acclimated to a sound signature) or pads compressing more or simply a different position on the head or other aspects.

(Link) I have taken the quotes from this long an very technical article.

It is worth a read, as are some of the other articles.

It’s an argument that is pretty pointless to have on a Hifi forum. Whichever camp you belong to. Opinions are embedded and unlikely to meet