Yes indeed and your amplifier is a 52/135 - monoblocs (Naim’s top system before 552/500) to drive the power hungry 804s…
In any case I would choose the NAP 250 DR over the SN2 to drive a B&W 803D.
Eoink, how far are your B&W’s from the wall? I think that should be the main concern for the OP: the room and distance to the walls.
I liked the B&W 800 series, but only well into a room.
Hi Ardbeg, as you’ll see from the picture, the speakers are partly in front of the wall and partly in front of the windows. They’re about 40cm from the wall and 70cm from the glass.
Many thanks for sharing your experience/insights regarding to my original post of this thread. Your feedback has been very helpful overall, and it has been for me a nice experience of the NAIM community in this forum as a novice.
The main take-home message for me is that my original two-box streamer-amp options were not balancing well with my intended high-end speakers B&W 803d (a point made by hungryhalibut and seconded by several others: Gunnar, Fernar, Bobthebuilder,JohnF, etc.). I did not hear anyone coming out strongly in the defense of 272 with respect to its streaming functionality, and from what I understand, waiting for the 272 successor might be like Madama Butterfly waiting for Pinkerton. The preferred alternative seems to be the NDX2 (e.g. seakayaker) at increased box count.
So based on your feedback I am considering these more high-end solutions for the intended B&W 803:
a) NDX2 + 282 + 250 DR (three box)
b) NDX2 + 252 + 300 (four box)
My issues now:
- I still desire to minimize the box count, so I was wondering whether the various power supplies mentioned (555PS, Supercap, Hicap) are necessary to have the above combinations function, or whether they are optional?
- If they are optional, would an average listener hear the difference with or without these additional power supplies (when paired up with B&W 803 or similar quality loudspeakers)?
- Would an average listener hear the difference between a) and b) (when paired up with B&W 803 or similar quality loudspeakers)?
Mike-B says that B&W loudspeakers are tested with 225-300W per channel. But the high-end amp 300 seems to deliver only 90 W, so
- what makes the 300 so good (and so expensive)?
This very much relates to the question well-articulated by timmo1341. From the follow-up I understand there are no simple or readily available technical data sheets, and so it comes to subjective listening.
- Does any of you (in addition to Analogmusic) had experiences with Naim amps and B&W speakers, and how well do you think they “match”, subjectively?
When I ask about “hearing the difference” and what makes an amp set-up “good”, I should mention that currently I have a relatively large living room (8 x 8 m), but in 99% of the cases, I will not play the music very loudly, as I live on the canals of Amsterdam and have neighbours. So I am less interested in differences that will become apparent only at volume levels of dance clubs.
From Innocent_Bystander and I understood that room correction can be a good thing but its availability should not be a deciding factor, rather optimise room layout.
I will also follow through on the advice of trying to arrange a home demo (did not realize that this was in the cards). I am renting though, and I sure hope that my hi-end hifi equipment will not turn into a lemon if I later buy an apartment. Come to think of it, at the prices involved of my option b), I might have to longer rent my current apartment 
Further feedback is much appreciated, thank you.
Greetings from Amsterdam!
David-NL
I believe you would need separate PSUs for the pre-amps (for streamer it’s optional but at this level recommended)
NAC282
Power Supply Options: NAP 155 XS, NAP 200, FlatCap XS, HiCap, SuperCap
NAC252
Power Supply Options: SuperCap
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The Nac252 will need a Supercap to power it so your second option is a 5 box arrangement.
Hi David
My similar questions re 282 & 252 power supplies were fully answered in this recent thread
HTH
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From their specifications the peak power capability of Naim power amps before clipping is of the order of 5x the rated power output - more specifically, 500w in the case of the NAP 300. That is in contrast to the more common factor of 2 peak vs continuous power capability quoted by othe manufacturers. Given that in practical music terms peak power capability is usually the limiting factor, if my understanding is correct, in practical terms the 300 can deliver similar power to a nominally 250w RMS rated amp by another manufacturer.
I would consider nothing less than the 300 in the Nsim range for my own speakers, as I know that for spirited playing peaks of 500w are needed.
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When I went from an olive 250 to a non-dr 300 I found that low volume listening worked a lot better
David, I’m glad you found my comments helpful. With those speakers, it’s really the 300 that you want. I’ve had a 250DR and now have a 300DR and it’s simply miles better. I didn’t say much about the 272 because I suspect you want the new platform, which is more flexible. I use a 272/555PSDR with my 300 and in my opinion it is wonderful and in the world of Naim fantastic value. Remember that both the 282 and 252 need a power supply, so that’s more boxes!! If you want to stop at four, the 272, 555, 300 is hard to beat.
Turning to speakers, I’d support the suggestions of looking at used examples. I paid only £2,100 for my used Naim SL2s when I bought them nearly four years ago, and you’d need to spend about £10,000 to equal them if you were to buy something new. I can understand the allure of something new of course, and if you have tried lots of speakers and really love the 803D3, then just make sure you give them the electronics they deserve. Also, make sure you don’t end up spending £30,000 when you’d really have been happy with something that costs a third or half that. It’s easy to get carried away!!
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Great, thanks, I missed that one!
Sorry jumping in @anon4489532 - how many boxes do you have 3 or 4?. I have a 272/XPSDR/Nap 250DR. I am contemplating upgrading the XPS DR to 555PS DR. At this time I hadn’t really thought about replacing the nap250 for a 300 but interested to read you comments. That’s 3 boxes still yes? - you could presumably get the nap330 PS to power the NAP 300 but is that overkill
PS looking at the Naim connection guide P23 looks like you have two Burndys on the 555psdr - does it matter which connection is used? (and why does it have two)
The 300 is a two box amplifier - always two boxes. The 555PS has two Burndy sockets to power the NDS, ND555 or, of course, the CD555. When used with a 272 you use a single S-XPS Burndy, connected to Socket 1 on the 555PS.
David,
When I make an upgrade PS or Ethernet cable or … my wife hears the difference. She is normally saying “It was really good before but now it sounds even better”. And she is not an Audiophile. So the answer is Yes. Normal people hear the upgrades.
Buying loudspeaker second hand is not bad but I am not sure it is for you David. In my opinion you need to be an experienced listener so you can be sure that the loudspeakers are without technical faults and that you will like them. But why not buy demos from a dealer.
I had three loudspeakers for home demo before deciding. I had Sopra 3, 802 D3 and Kudos Titan 808. The first did not work in my room, the 802 was in my mind too analytical. The third the Titans i liked and kept. That does not means that the first two were bad but not for me even if I enjoyed them in the dealer rooms. In a listening session with the ND 555 one of the loudspeakers were 800 D3. The guy next to me loved them. He was on his way upgrading from a 804. So very individual.
It is better to be able to say. “I decided for the 803 after listening to some other brands”. Instead of regretting. A compromise for you could be. Buy the electronics and pay them but do not pay for the 803 before you are sure you really enjoy them in your place.
I bought my electronics from one dealer and the loudspeakers from another one. I strongly recommend you to home demo loudspeakers prior deciding. For me it’s a question of enjoying the music without being tired in the ears after a few hours listening.
Buying Naim the dealer takes care of the installation. If you are not pleased with the 803 you can always choose another dealer for the loudspeaker. I am sure they will let you get a home demo of prior deciding. But up to you to make the shortlist and of course to find the dealer.
May 8 Naim will make an an announcement of new product(s). Maybe (no one knows what) a new 272 will be realised with the new streaming platform. So do not decide prior May 8.
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@HH - thanks for your reply - much appreciated
@anon4489532 , @anon35279323 thanks very much for your useful follow-up.
I am indeed looking to buy new, because, as Gunnar mentioned, I am not an expert listener and I’d rather be on the “safe” side.
Short update: I just returned from the dealer where I heard NDX2+282+300 (the 252 wasn’t in store) paired up with B&W 803d, Vivid Kaya 45 and KEF Blade 2. I listened to Mahler VI symphony (fast varying dynamics), Bruckner 7 (slow majestic build-ups) and Schubert’s Death and Maiden (string quartet). All seem fine speakers, but I especially liked B&W 803d and Vivid Kaya 45, as they were “vivdly” able keep up with Mahler 6.
Anyway, I will wait for May 8 before deciding …
Death and the Maiden is a great piece. I heard it performed by the wonderful Chiaroscuro Quartet, and they subsequently recorded it. It’s well worth getting hold of if you don’t have it. As to May, I very much doubt it will influence your decision making. Do try to get to hear the 272/555/300 as well.
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David, Maybe a few boxes more than 3 but with a 252 you can not go wrong. The 282 is also great. I think it’s smart to go for the new streamer platform.
When you home demo be sure that the dealer does not bring a Power supply for the NDX2 just to let you hear the difference. Why? Then you will end up with an additional box and at least 5000 less on the bank account. Keep possible improvements for the future.
I am sure your dealer is professional and knows his job but never the less for your own knowledge discuss with him about “feet” under the loudspeakers prior the home demo.
I bought my first Naim kit 1995 and made a huge upgrade 2016. Prior the upgrade 2016 I started to make a “market study” just to see what was out there. After a few months looking around and getting more and more confused I decided to continue with Naim. Reasons. I liked the sound, over 20 years without any technical issus and still possibilities to service my old stuff. Naim is a company which takes a long term responsibility. And finally the possibilities to upgrade whenever I want and of course when allowed.
Good luck and do not rush into something which will not make you 100% happy.
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Hi David,
I followed a very similar approach, by first finding the right speakers. I listened to dozens of them at several dealers, and it became pretty clear that all speakers sound different, almost as different as human voices do. The difference in SQ between different amplifiers through the same speaker is much less than the difference between different speakers on the same amp.
So with my limited budget at the time I selected the B&W 804 D2 from many speakers, especialy for their very natural sound of female voices and acoustic/classical instruments like piano, horns, violin, cello etc. For rock and dance music with their hyped high & low frequencies, the B&W’s may be too bright, but for classical music they are fantastic. After finding the 804 D2, the selection of power amp and pre-amp was less of a problem and I found the NAP250 with the 172XS streamer. At that time the budget split was 50% for the speakers, 50% for the electronics.
When more funds came available I upgraded the 8043D2 to 802D2 and the 172XS to 272. So the end result is 272 + 250 + 802D2, and I’m truly enjoying this 2-box kit. And alternative for you could be the 272+300DR versus the 272+250DR, you would have to listen to make that call.
Although forum members have suggested that the 250 is too small for the 802D2, I never felt that way and the 250 sounds very controlled and refined at normal listening volumes. In our living room of 13 x 4-5 meter with the 272 volume at 60-70%, the system makes more than enough noise for our daughters´ parties!
Good luck in finding the right kit and greetings from Gouda!
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