Unhappy with the new NAIM update

Actually I want tip toeing. I had a complete different system before this and then the atc’s with a 222 first. No problem on both system. Also no problems after I switched to the 332/333 for a long time. Then after the update things went out of balance. So I don’t think this can be blamed on the room. It’s definitely the control of the bass that is out of balance after the update.

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Nope, I’m presuming it’s a bug and will be sorted in next edition, I use wired so not a current issue.

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Well that is a fair shout… no excuse for that.

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I can’t help but feel that the problem is less whether the firmware update made something sound better or worse and more that it sounds different at all.

Because sound quality is subjective, it is important that every unit performs the same as the day you bought it and matched it with your system.

Feature changes is one thing, but sonic performance should not be tinkered with once the first unit rolls off the production line.

A 333 that year heard a year ago should be the same as a 333 you finally place an order for today. Similar, the 333 being reviewed should be the same as the one you get. And the 333 you actually bought a year ago should be the same as the one still in use today. Otherwise the goalposts are moving.

In my opinion.

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There has always been some subtle changes with sound after other firmware updates, but this time it’s very noticeable. I wonder whether this occurs in other brand’s streamers. It does feel that as there is a computer aspect to streaming, that this is probably an inherent risk with streaming?

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I have never been happy with the idea from day one, even when positive changes were reported. Like I said, better or worse isn’t the issue. It’s that it changes at all. I don’t expect a product to be a work in progress.

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That’s why you should buy a really good turntable Mike…:sunglasses::innocent:

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Thanks - that is so true. I am also suffering and this without any alternative streamer. I do not listen anymore… :persevere:

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The effect is really huge - I think you all underestimate it. There is nothing to be done with speaker placement or cables.

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100%

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I’ve had updates from Linn for my Selekt DSM; Edition Hub with no issues afterwards.

Been reading the tales of woe and hope that it gets resolved successfully and more importantly, quickly.

DG…

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Yes I think I said this before earlier in this thread: PS Audio has exactly this issue, that changes to their dac firmware make significant changes to sound quality for users.

For most users these changes are positive, but for some users a new version of the firmware can sound the same or worse than the previous version.

IIRC, PS Audio actually have names for the firmware versions.

But the difference is that PS Audio users as far as I know can revert to earlier versions of firmware so they are not stuck if they really don’t like the new firmware.

I’m by no means an expert on PS Audio firmware updates.

One of the problems for Naim is that the way they design their dacs makes them more open to changes in the electrical environment than other manufacturers DACs.

Naim could design their dacs to be more immune to the electrical environment of the house where they are installed, but then those changes would make Naim streamers more bland like most other dacs sound, and we would lose overall the Naim sound as far as dacs are concerned.

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Yes. Devialet do the same. I had a Devialet 250 for 8 years before coming back to Naim. All the various firmware updates, of which there were about 10 when I first bought were kept available and debated widely regarding SQ. changes were actually similar to the ones perilla find here. I chose to stay with an older version as it sounded more analogue.

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That is unrealistic with current technology. Components age and performance changes… after all some say some products don’t sound their best until they have been used for many many months… but that dynamic is continuous… it doesn’t magically stop when we like the sound of it…

Additionally, in this day of age of electronic controllers and processors that are connected to networks, one needs to update to resolve bugs or vulnerabilities … it’s a legal requirement in the UK now for manufacturers to provide such patches for current equipment.

Therefore what with component aging, and updating software, the idea of a product performance being frozen in time is simply naive.

Now sure, if the performance evolves such as with an upgrade or service so that it falls out of stated tolerances or potentially universally regarded as poor… say through general component failure like a relay oxidising, then you should have redress.

Now it does sound like it might be happening with some of these ND555 units with two powersupplies, perhaps the upgrade process failed for some of the modules due to the two powersupplies … I don’t know… but that is different to saying that performance should be frozen in time.

It would be lovely if I bought a 10 year old car that drove as well as it did when it was brand new… but equally if I bought a 10 year old car I would expect it go faster than 20mph.

Now I admit in the world of non network connected components, I have opted to use old firmware as I preferred the sound of it. The NDAC being a case of point…
On the analogue side I preferred the 555PS nonDR with my NDAC as I didn’t like the upgraded DR version as much, the sound signature very much changed.

Finally I am a supporter of separating DACs from streamers in part because of reasons like this… as you will have read from me over the last 10 years or so. Having a DAC and a streamer in close proximity sharing resources is potentially asking for challenges… I think on the whole Naim have walked that high wire reasonably well… perhaps a wobble here though for some watching in the audience

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Several people with an ND555 and two power supplies prefer the sound quality change, even among the small sample on here who have stated a preference.

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In what way did the sound change?

Hmmm I think I disagree there. Your analogy is more like wear and tear over time, which we all understand.

And we also understand that connected devices have feature updates.

But Naim have also done things like DSP tweaks which is more akin to buying you car and having Mercedes come and in an tinker with it in your garage because they had an idea for an improvementafter they sold it.

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If you are referring to SHARC processor and over sample and IIR anti aliasing low pass filter… there have been no tweaks since the NDAC. In the, ISTR, 6 operand instruction sequence there is not much room for manoeuvre without drastic sonic changes. But yes the SHARC processor chips them selves have been up versioned with recent products.

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With over the air updates in cars today this is very much what is happening. My ID4 have had break response changed, regeneration levels etc which to a great extent change the driving experience. Sometimes it (IMO) got worse, sometimes better. Same with Tesla with changes to headlights and many other things. Software products is more alive than ever today. If we don’t like it I guess one have to look at offline products or be stuck with software not supporting the latest features.

What is trivial in this case is we don’t know if it was an error of some kind or if it was intended.

I found the non DR more visceral and organic with a slightly dirty analogue type presentation.

The DR cleaned that up but I felt it lost its organic and natural analogue feel, and became too polished and clean. For me the beauty of the NDAC was its slightly dirty analogue presentation with the nonDR 555PS.

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