Unhappy with the new NAIM update

I also reported the problem. I received back immediately a standard message with a ticket number.

I am pretty sure that the problem will be taken seriously. I think also that it is hard one for Naim. They need to figure if there are equipment specific behaviors, does it depend on the streaming source and so on and so forth.

I pointed out to them that the version that was released differed from that we, as beta testers, evaluated. The beta version didn’t raise any remark about its sound signature. Thus something must have occurred between the two versions of the firmware.

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Yep!

Almost tempted to say what did you expect? Oh dear, I’ve said it.

I’ll get my coat :innocent:.

ATB, J

PS And well done!

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Whilst I can hear an element of what people are complaining about, I find all the other aspects of the sound signature of the new Firmware very much outweigh this. I have also noticed this edgy and or harshness is very much recording-dependent. I would be very unhappy if the next firmware lost all the benefits that I hear and enjoy. I worry that a small but vocal group of forum users could push Naim into doing this. I also understand that people are unhappy with this and it is impacting their enjoyment of their music of choice. I do think that some of the voices here are sounding very entitled because they are in a position to afford a very expensive system and think their needs should trump the needs or wants of people with more modest systems. Every customer, regardless of the cost of their Naim products should have an equal voice and it not be determined by how deep their pockets are, having a hissy fit about how you have spent more and should have a greater voice reflects badly on you I think.

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Completely agree with this, though I do suppose happy users can stick. my system 222/300/250 Aurdirvana (+Qobuz) on a Mac mini Upnp and full Vertere Redline loom sounds just fabulous now. I had been niggling about going 332/333 but no need now. Whatever happens to future firmware updates I will be sticking here. Personally to keep the peace, I think Naim should implement a choice of firmware by allow step backs for those that feel they need it. its all so subjective that this is the only way.

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My system also resembles the many changes from day to day. There are days where things are pretty good. Then the next day on the same track I have to lower the volume considerably to be able to listen to it. Then another day my bass is super boomy and fat and a few days later it is only the lowest bass that gives problems while the rest is tight and the room is not problematic.

It’s very much like a breaking in process even though my streamer is a year old.

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Has anyone compared Tidal Connect vs Naim App vs Roon for the same source for example?

Not yet but I’ll try Roon the next couple of days.

I don’t use tidal connect.

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I cant speak for everyone experiencing these issues but I for one would not like to reverse the positives of the update, which are extremely enjoyable. If the high frequency hardness was toned down and the flabby bass tightened up, it seems highly unlikely anyone not noticing it in the first place would notice it being fixed either. That would be the solution I hope for.

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A layman ponders. Could the variability being reported be due to the update making equipment much more sensitive to the variations/quality of the mains supply?

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Brendan, while the step back and choice sounds good, it is very unlikely to be practical. A lot of the firmware features go hand in hand with app functionality, therefore step back would have implications for usability. It would also make support and fault diagnosis much more challenging. The best solution is to find a firmware tuning that works for all. It has been like that for years, and it’s only this release that has caused such disquiet. I do agree wholeheartedly that all users are equally important and have made that point myself previously. Having deep pockets must never be equated with greater importance or enhanced status.

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Related to the changes some hear during the day. Is it depending on track quality/resolution? I’m thinking if Hi-res is more of a problem than CD-quality. The new Streaming unlimited software has made many changes to the audio library and one of them is supporting Tidal Max hi-res.

Maybe there is some upsampling going on. When I turn on Upsampling on my Lindemann Bridge II I can hear a bit of what some describe here. Not using upsampling sound more relaxed and natural.

I also proposed this a few days ago, but the suggestion was immediately negated by a member using some kind of fancy power conditioning or regulating to even-out mains variability…apparently.

G

It certainly seems very odd that people are reporting variability of SQ, and that it can be partly mitigated by alterations in which inputs are enabled. I’m no engineer, but can’t understand how the firmware itself could possibly cause that, in the absence of external factors, such as mains variability, or even one’s mood.

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Sorry - missed that. It is a long thread!

I have tried to evaluate this but cant find a correlation. It can range from great to not enjoyable at the same time of day/night on different days/nights. My mains is quite stable (steady voltage) and clean (little transformer hum) generally. Where there is a slight increase/decrease in transformer hum, it doesn’t correlate with changes in sound.

I don’t use any online streaming services. It is the same whether ripped CDs, regular downloads, HD downloads or Radio Paradise (which I have always found tends to warm).

I have tried the Naim app vs Innuos Sense app. I still prefer Sense but the sound problems occur with both.

Naim support are being quite arrogant about this issue. Their responses to my support request are disappointing to say the least:

“The recent firmware updates on our products have gone through detailed listening sessions, and have been deemed better, than the previous version, with very minimal change” and “We are gathering customer feedback regarding the changes in sound quality, and while there have been a few negative responses, the majority of feedback has been very positive”

I stated that I have a quality issue, they respond without any investigation that I’m wrong. This is called gaslighting.

“A patch release is planned for both the app and products in the coming weeks. Once it’s live, we’ll review any further feedback regarding sound quality changes to determine the best course of action, if needed” and “We are unable to further investigate sound quality issues until the scheduled firmware patch for both the app and products in the coming weeks”

So, there is, or isn’t, an issue with the current firmware sound quality, that will, or won’t, be addressed by a new patch, at which point they may, or may not, do further fixes.

I think I’m kinda done honestly.

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That sounds very reasonable to me. It states the situation exactly as it is. You just need to be patient and wait for the patch release.

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Don’t agree, at all. Don’t even understand why you’re being defensive: we waited months for this update in the first place.

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I think you’ll find that those of us with more modest systems are noticing the changes less, or not at all so no, I don’t agree with your premise.

If I owned a 555 or Statement based setup, I’d be incensed, so I don’t blame those guys. At all.

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It’s not about being defensive, it’s about being realistic. It will take several weeks to fully test the patch release, and only when the functionality is finalised can it be tuned for SQ. There is a process to be followed, and it takes time. People can stamp their feet, wave their arms around and demand that everything be sorted NOW!!! but it’s just not going to happen. Of course it’s concerning to those who are experiencing issues, but it’s in everyone’s interest to get it right.

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