Unhappy with the new NAIM update

I think possibly the real mistake that Naim made was releasing a new firmware in such a way that made it impossible to roll back to the previous firmware - even temporarily - without risking ‘bricking’ the unit (something to do with the ARM code).

I think that made it an all or nothing gamble. If there was an issue with the new firmware, or people just didn’t like it, their only choice it seems is to wait months for Naim to make a ‘complete’ fix.

They should have given themselves a get out of jail free card.

I’m possibly speaking simplistically and being presumptuous when I say this, however I suspect that Naim could have parked the functionality fixes and ‘tweaked’ the new firmware to simply remove some of the ‘glare’ or ‘shrillness’ or ‘toppiness’ (choose your preferred descriptor) that the vast majority of unsatisfied users seem to be experiencing. The amended firmware could then have been re-released in quick time, which I believe would have mitigated a lot of the issues (not all, but some) and enable Naim to crack on with the functionality fixes and their final retune and re-release.

But the software developer mentality seems to have out ranked the customer service mentality. Which would be ironic if correct because the functionality issues or bugs that are holding things up are the fault of the software devs in the first place.

Correct me if I’m wrong…

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I have managed to move the speakers to a position where it sounds amazing even a few cm makes a real difference but it’s really worth it. Yes I don’t have it as loud as I used too but I had to turn it up to get a similar sq. The resolution is stunning. It’s the opposite of harsh infact all frequencies are solid. I wonder if they change the Fw again and end up alienating the majority who are happy, will we get another forum of people shouting and complaining to get it changed? Oh the Irony! :joy:

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Having some experience of working with software developers in the medical AI field I think Naim’s sober, measured approach is sensible. SOME users have an issue, there is a PLANNED patch being tested. WHEN that is stable they will look at the SQ issues and then get FEEDBACK to see if things are improved.
What’s wrong with that?
With software it’s the only way (says he currently uploading a set of documentation on software quality assurance to a regulator’s portal) - anything else would be negligent.
People waving their arms about etc is frankly tedious.

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What would you want them to say or do? This is a genuine question, as I find their answer totally reasonable. 12% ON THIS FORUM find the current FW worse than the previous one. It might be 1% of the feedback they have received (or it could be 25%). So, I am not sure what you want to say or do. I am willing to be educated, truly.

I am Extremely disappointed with this update. Since I’ve been running this on my nd555 I’ve been having a lot of problems. When I want to listen to an album the track stops at the end and doesn’t move on to the next one. The app. naim can no longer control the passage from one album to another and the passage from one track to another well. I’m frustrated, so I can’t use it…I hope they make an update soon…

[image]

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Pre loved ND555 soon available, thanks Naim :clap: :wink:

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I was curious so asked some questions and I’m reliably told that the total number of customers who have contacted Naim support about a possible reduction in sound quality since the FW update is only just into double figures. I was really surprised because, although a few sources had told me the numbers were very small, judging from this thread I reckoned it would have been way, way more, but apparently not so. Contrast to the far larger number who I’m told have commented favourably on the sound since the latest FW, and I can start to understand the tricky position Naim are in here when faced with the handful who are not so happy.

However, don’t let that make anybody think that Naim are ignoring even so few. I get the impression that they are keen to find out why even these few customers are experiencing this result from the latest FW. I think there are some minor bug fixes in the offing that should be released soon, so I think once that’s out Naim will be in a better position to try to understand why a few people have experienced poorer sound performance when the vast majority (including Naim themselves) feel it’s an improvement.

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Thanks Richard, as expected really given the number of customers most of whom are not on the forum.

It might be that the SQ problem some users are reporting is one of the “bugs” that the patch release will address, even if the bug isn’t directly causing the problem. Whist I don’t know anything about the technicalities, people with more knowledge than mine have commented that changing code, can change SQ even when that is not the direct intent, well that is my understanding of what they have written.

This is odd. Tonight I decided to play Jonathan Wilson back catalogue via my NAS and for the first time I’m not enjoying it. JW - Fanfare on redbook is one of my favourites, so well recorded and I know this album back to front, but it seems off. Previous playback with the new firmware on the ND5XS2 was mainly via Tidal Max.
DAC is a Chord DAVE.

Hi Richard, although Naim have just up to double digits in their spreadsheet, I would hope they have been made aware that there are currently 35 people on this forum alone that have voted in the poll to say their SQ has deteriorated. The number keeps rising.

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Email Naim as below

Support@naimaudio.com

If you are not happy with the firmware update stating briefly why you are not happy.

I explained that I get shrill on HF and there is too much treble, bass has less control and isn’t as deep, sound is fatiguing.

I also said it sounds better now with one 555PSDR although it is not what I wanted as the 2nd 555PSDR is a recommended upgrade as per White paper ND555.

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Fair. But people who noticed because others say are unhappy are not independent data points. It’s like when you run an experiment. Any communication between participants nullify the participants. Not saying it’s not true, just making sure we base whatever conclusion on reliable data. So, any data point after this thread was begun is not an independent source of data. I know it sucks, but that’s how you get reliable data. Sorry to be a stickler for getting good data. Really, I know I am a pain in that respect. My family tells me all the time.

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Yes, which makes no sense (unless the poll is flawed or in some way false), hence why I have been repeatedly asking for anyone who feels that performance has suffered to contact support as that’s the only meaningful process here.

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A poll where participants see people’s reasons for their answers prior to their voting is worth nothing as far as quantitative data is concerned, since these are not independent information. It is important for Naim to listen to and try to understand the negative experience of those who have it with the new FW and it should be addressed. But we cannot conclude anything quantitative from the poll that was conducted, I am afraid. One way or the other. Again, getting reliable data is paramount if you want to draw quantitative conclusions.

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Those are your opinions. Not facts.

Votes are votes. Emails to Naim support are exactly that. Those are the facts.

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Perhaps compile a playlist of test tracks which most prominently demonstrate the issues? Once a decent number are agreed, then send to Naim’s ‘Golden Ears’.

Might need a separate thread.

G

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Well, no, it’s stats and experimental design. You can convince anybody of anything by talking to them! There is such a thing as reliable data and such a thing as unreliable data. And this poll is made up of unreliable data because of the lack of independence of observations. Now, as I said, Naim still needs to figure out what’s going on for disgruntled people, but you are simply wrong about quantitative data and my point is simply that you cannot conclude anything more than “there are people who say they are unhappy”. No conclusion as to the number or percentage. Sorry to be a stickler for science.

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My feeling is that this is exactly what has happened. The noise floor has lowered significantly, making systems more resolving. This will expose variations in mains supplies, recording quality, room interaction and the listeners mood and perception.

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Its possible that the negative issues being experienced by some users could be influenced by the actual chips/components that are being written to with the firmware upgrade.
A batch of chips manufactued on one date is not necessarily 100% identical with the same model# produced a few weeks later - so possibly its specific batches of serial numbers having problems.
This is something that only Naim could identify and would take time to investigate

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