Unhappy with the new NAIM update

I want them to approach requests for support with curiosity and openness not defensive gaslighting.

I want them to be clear if they have identified issues or bugs that are potentially affecting sound quality that they are solving.

Again, these are your perceptions. However, these are clearly opinions you are stating.

I have stated clear facts.

Anyone can say that the independence of the votes or the quality of the statements made about the firmware is biaised or incorrect.

However, comments made are comments made. Votes are votes. Those are facts that they have been stated and made.

What you are saying is dismissing the quality and independence of comments and votes. That is subjective. Not fact. You need to apply logic if you are a scientist.

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I don’t think there’s any “gaslighting” going on here, just stating the facts as they appear. The ears at Naim are happy and the response from customers has been overwhelmingly positive. However there’s a small handful of customers who aren’t happy, so I think Naim are definitely curious and would like to get to the bottom of why this is. For Naim performance is everything. However, as well all know, with streaming there are so many variables involved, so it can be very complex, but I really do think they would like to know what’s going on. Probably a good idea to get the minor bug fixes applied and out the way and then see how things are from there. But din the meantime, the only “poll” that counts are enquiries to Naim support.

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Works both ways though, right?

How you know you’ve been associated with Naim for too long.

G

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# Imagination can change what we hear and see

A study from Karolinska Institutet shows, that our imagination may affect how we experience the world more than we perhaps think. What we imagine hearing or seeing ‘in our head’ can change our actual perception. The study, which is published in the scientific journal Current Biology, sheds new light on a classic question in psychology and neuroscience – about how our brains combine information from the different senses.

“We often think about the things we imagine and the things we perceive as being clearly dissociable,” says Christopher Berger, doctoral student at the Department of Neuroscience and lead author of the study. “However, what this study shows is that our imagination of a sound or a shape changes how we perceive the world around us in the same way actually hearing that sound or seeing that shape does. Specifically, we found that what we imagine hearing can change what we actually see, and what we imagine seeing can change what we actually hear.”

The study consists of a series of experiments that make use of illusions in which sensory information from one sense changes or distorts one’s perception of another sense. Ninety-six healthy volunteers participated in total. In the first experiment, participants experienced the illusion that two passing objects collided rather than passed by one-another when they imagined a sound at the moment the two objects met. In a second experiment, the participants’ spatial perception of a sound was biased towards a location where they imagined seeing the brief appearance of a white circle. In the third experiment, the participants’ perception of what a person was saying was changed by their imagination of a particular sound.

According to the scientists, the results of the current study may be useful in understanding the mechanisms by which the brain fails to distinguish between thought and reality in certain psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia. Another area of use could be research on brain computer interfaces, where paralyzed individuals’ imagination is used to control virtual and artificial devices.

“This is the first set of experiments to definitively establish that the sensory signals generated by one’s imagination are strong enough to change one’s real-world perception of a different sensory modality”, says Professor [Henrik Ehrsson], the principle investigator behind the study.

This study was funded by the European Research Council, the Swedish Foundation for Strategic Research, the James S. McDonnell Foundation, the Swedish Research Council, and the Söderberg Foundation.

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That is why everyone who is not happy needs to email Naim.

I told @HungryHalibut and he said he would pass it on, as I am sure he has.

I have emailed Naim as I am now told that unless I do so, it doesn’t count.

Please note many on here didn’t realise that they had to or know how to raise a ticket so the true numbers who contact Naim is lower as a result.

I thought I had done enough, clearly not.

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I think you two are going around in circles here. It is correct that the poll is of limited value once people have discussed, and hence influenced people’s views, from a statistical point of view. That doesn’t distract from an individual’s experience.

It is also true that correlation does not equal causation.

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It’s done @Mike_S. No point flogging a dead horse.

“That doesn’t distract from an individual’s experience.” Absolutely. I made that point and I am sure Naim is trying to figure out about this experience. But who knows whether this is true experience or reconstructed experience (I have run experiments on language where that happens, without people being aware it is happening). I was making a small point about not taking the numbers seriously and I apologize for being a nerd in this respect. But it is worth pointing out as people don’t realize how much what we experience is influenced by what people say or how much our memories are influenced by reconstructions based on stereotypes. But Naim should and will inquire and improve things, I am sure.

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And there are countless experiments on how people’s memories are partly reconstructed (and this is why eye witnesses are so problematic in trials).

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The main thing is that hopefully Naim are taking what is now called a “handful of customers” negative viewpoints on sound quality with the firmware update seriously.

Like @Richard.Dane states, unless you have contacted Naim directly, your vote means nothing. You need to back it up by emailing Naim.

My fear is if the firmware isn’t changed, I will have to take my custom elsewhere. Possibly rebuild an entire system.

Obviously this is an absolute last resort for me as my system is the one thing that has really been there for me in what can only be called desperate times. The system is my solace. And this forum has been wonderful for me too.

So come on Naim!

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I have reached out to support, and will await for the next weeks to see what happens. In the meantime I have already made an appointment at my dealer to test some alternatives. Although I only have an ND5 XS 2, I want to enjoy music to the fullest. If the sound stays as is, than I am walking away.

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I’m not about to review this thread for a count but I get the impression that the number of people that stated they have informed Naim is more than just into double figures. Perhaps the way feedback has been collated and categorised is flawed?

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Thanks @Amarok. Every email helps. The ND5XS2 is a great machine. And I used it into my NDS which I used as DAC for a while.

Every Naim customer is important. All the boxes they make are good. This latest firmware has for many affected the use of their systems and their happiness.

I think Naim need to realise just how important music is to people’s lives. For me, dealing with cancer and having multiple operations and treatments the system is my main solace.

To come home from an operation, treatment or work I need my system to sound right.

And it doesn’t. It sounds like it’s on steroids. Listening to my Linn LP12 Klimax and it sounds like heaven.

ND555 with 2 x 555PSDRs sounds fatiguing. Very disappointing considering it’s a £32k streaming set up. Should in theory sound better than LP12 Klimax, considering it’s price!

I feel we are being sidelined and told we are a handful and a minority group. How would you feel in my position if you had spent a fortune on streaming set up and you don’t want to listen to it?

For me time is everything. I don’t necessarily have alot left! There needs to be some urgency on this.

Very disappointing strategy by Naim:

Complete lack of communication
Lack of taking ownership of the issues.

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You have quite challenge there, Dan. Hope those patches that are mentioned by Naim will make the SQ unexpectedly become more to your liking. For now I’d enjoy the Linn to its fullest. Take care!

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I really thought that Naim staff read the forum. Maybe the poll is worthless if they can’t be bothered to read it and can’t be bothered to respond to customer dissatisfaction.

So as a builder and my customers weren’t happy, would I just ignore them for 8 weeks and say I will put a patch on it! This is what Naim are doing. But they aren’t putting a patch on it. Think about it!

Totally agree. Number is not the issue and communication is always better than no communication, including “We are trying to figure out what’s going on” (although, I seem to recollect somebody on the forum reporting this is basically what he was told). But, I don’t envy Naim, as they might not be able to replicate the conditions leading to the worsening audio experience. So, they have to try to guess at the causes without being able to replicate the behavior. Worst situation for finding a solution. It reminds me of Sony firmware update for their high end ILC and causing havoc. Software updates are such a bear, but they had to do it, since there was no support of TIDAL hires anymore through the Naim app, for example. Good luck and I am sure Naim will come to the rescue (as a customer of Naim for over 42 years).

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I will enjoy the Linn LP12. Thinking of selling ND555 and 2 x 555PSDRs and getting dCS streamer/DAC. At least you can change the settings on it. There are loads of other brands out there.

I have started looking already which is not a good sign with me. If I am not happy I don’t hang about.

This is why getting things right is so important. Advising customers of problems is so important. The fact that Naim hasn’t acknowledged the problem is a big issue. Acknowledge, Investigate and Reply. Naim have done none of these things on this forum. And that is the problem.

If you make a mistake: acknowledge it. Don’t ignore it! You will loose customers.

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Maybe they need to visit customers systems and see what is going on! How can you know the problem unless it is replicated.

Not a lot different from an engineer coming out to check what is going wrong with your car or washing machine.

A bit more subjective of course! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: