That’s a really good description/break down of the differences between 10.1 and 8.2. From what I heard of 3.11 it did less of the things that I didn’t like about 3.10.1. But it’s DNA, as it were, will still please the majority who state a preference for the “new” sound 
2 Likes
There are some aspects (although not many) that I like about 3:10. I think the bass definition does have more depth and percussion sounds particular good.
What I’ve come to understand is that you can ‘tweak’ your way around the worst of the issues with 3:10 to a point where you can almost accept the compromises. What was great about 3:8 is that you could get it to sound good with zero effort but it could sound absolutely sublime if you cared to put in the time! Let’s hope 3:11 responds as well?
4 Likes
Well female voices and playing loud and piano that is at least close to something that can be tested. I rarely play loud living in an apartment block sets limits to that. And of course the time since I left 3.8 is so long ago I am not even sure when that was. But ditital glare that very unspecific term I do not find. of course I do not run a 500 system only the 552 with a 300 pre/power and that may have solved the issue or never letting it show. and I have made many tweaks to my digital side that may have stopped this from occuring.
Claus
Actually FC, Naim have always been happy to improve performance where possible, often applying lessons that they had learned along the way - some relatively recent examples being the resistor lift in the NAP500, protection mod for the classic amps, improved cabling arrangement for the NAC552 Burndy socket, improved functionality and sound with the Firmware update on the Naim DAC etc., to name just a few.
4 Likes
I can’t recall what 3.8 sounded like, but I certainly don’t dislike 3.10.1.
3 Likes
I am now going to start to agree despite being part of the dirty dozen….
I appreciate the clarification Nigel, we are on the same page.
2 Likes
Ha ha well hopefully the pain is over for all shortly
To me this all raises the question of what we are actually buying; are we buying hardware or software?
I buy the equipment because I like its sound, this is purely subjective. I do not want it changed as, as so perfectly illustrated here, what may be an improvement to some may not be to me.
If I want a change or improvement I expect to change the equipment, not have it unilaterally decided by someone else.
We are talking about music here; I buy a guitar because I like its sound, I do not expect it to change from a Les Paul to a Strat. I love my NDS sound, I don’t want it to sound like a ND555, yet it would appear Fw may change it to that without my permission.
I think this is concerning.
16 Likes
Fully agree and I posted similar a while ago. The 555 is not a newer NDS, it has a different sound signature as do the new classics. This has been widely reported in reviews as well.
It’s not a bad thing and I’m sure there are buyers who prefer that sound, probably some who switched up from the NDS to the 555 for this reason. But it’s not acceptable to bring the old NDS into line with that sound for buyers who bought and built systems around the legacy NDS.
As already said, we buy based on a sound signature. I listened to a 555 and preferred the less sharp, less aggressive sound of my NDS. The NDS firmware should sound like an NDS not a 555
4 Likes
I don’t think this viable in the world of streaming today. Unless you confine activity to simply playing from local storage, you’re reliant on external agents such as streaming services and radio aggregators. These can change beyond an equipment manufacturer’s control, as happened with vTuner, and then the manufacturer can just leave the purchaser high and dry or attempt to do something about it. Naim chose the latter course, but that inevitably meant a firmware update and so, technically at least, changed the equipment.
A guitar is not the same category of product as a streamer. The latter is surely closer to a computer or cell phone where updates are to be expected, even welcomed. Case in point: if Qobuz do ever release Qobuz Connect, should Naim update their Gen 2 streamers to support it?
Roger
2 Likes
Hi Roger
I think one can separate functionality from sound signature/ profile. I quite agree with you, functionality must be updated and we must thank Naim for doing so.
However the sound profile is separate to functionality and it can be defined, if it could not then it could not be changed. All I am suggesting is that the sound profile remains the same and care should be taken to ensure it is, as that is what we bought when we listened to the equipment.
I would suggest it is like a colour profile on monitors, you can set the profile to Adobe or sRGB etc which gives you consistent colour, whatever PC you are using. The source files will vary enormously due to the different cameras used, but you can be assured what you are seeing on your monitor is consistent
3 Likes
This is correct from my point of view too. Hardware and passive media has ceased to be dominant. Software and software integration to bring more and more functionality and capacity to process is now the dominant player. This is a much more physically intangible world and in the space of HiFi at the high end it is going to take organisations like Naim some time to get a grip of just how the more intangible elements of the ‘system’ impact the output of the system. I suggest this is the learning we are seeing with Naim right now.
But for some at least some both 3.9 and 3.10 was a step forward in SQ. I am not saying I find it so since I do not remember how I found the bnew code when betas was released. The problem is that enhancing the code taking out bugs also seem to change the sound profile and not only for the better.
Claus
I am sure that you are correct and that it is not as simple as I am describing, however my point is that no change should be expected in the sound profile, the goal should be consistency.
I think it is unreasonable for us, as customers, to buy something with the expectation that the SQ will improve. One would not do that with speakers (except running in of course).
It must be extremely hard for Naim keeping pace with all the tech
1 Like
I can see your POV. It must be very tough for Naim as they are now expected to be a software company as well as an excellent hardware company. The two cultures do not usually work well together.
I love my Naim products and they have given and continue to give me many hours of joy.
1 Like
Anything with a dac, its the filters and maps that make it sound as they do mostly.
So this can change everything as you guys have found out
I agree with you.
In my opinion the last 2 FW updates have deteriorated the SQ significantly compared to the previous FW (5.1.1 for NC and 3.8 for OC). So I expect that the SQ will change and will be more organic (less bright/sharp and more bass).
Since the last 2 FW updates my streamer is not the same device as I bought it one year ago.
6 Likes
This whole thread is so embarrassing, it’s like an extended Aprils Fool. What a sham; how can a (once) respected brand like NAIM allow this to happen?!
7 Likes
Surprise surprise, another dcs owner sticking the boot in
7 Likes