Upgrade to New or Old Classics?

Yes there is. You have to pay 25% sales tax on used items if bought outside EU if you live in Sweden. Sales tax, would assume, differ between countries.

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plus VAT, plus courier Fee.

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I see a 552 dr being sold by a UK dealer. It costs 70 euros shipping with VAT included.
9,5 k GBP.

Buying from UK into EU, dealers can reduce VAT from their retail price, as no matter what…, receiver need to pay own country VAT and the courier Fees.
Its a crazy barriere, often a no-go with private trades.

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I’ve had experience of trying to bring things in from the UK and it’s a mixture of tax and customs issues. It’s so problematic that, for example, most expats here order from Amazon Spain or Italy rather than Amazon UK. I’ve had things held in customs for ages and even times returned to sender.

Xanthe is absolutely correct about the 804s (and B&W speakers generally over the years) being hard loads to drive. However, I would say that I’ve been driving 804D2s and, before them, 804Ss for many years using just an OC NAP200: they sound great and have never giving the amplifier any trouble that I can tell, such as overheating or shutting down.

Of course, I’m sure a beefier Naim amp would drive them even better and, one day, I hope to be able to afford to find out!

Audiovector, Raidho, Scansonic, Borresen jjust to naim a few from my part of the world, and there are lots of other options. The world is no longer just the UK, if it ever was.

Thanks everyone for your responses to my original questions. I’ve just got back from an audition of NC at the (great) Naim master distributor here. I’m not as accomplished as others on the forum in describing the subtle differences and nuances in sound heard at such auditions so will just make the following general points (IMHO, subjectively and personally - this is just my relatively uneducated opinion!) based on hooking my 804 D2s up in a acoustically treated listening room:

It’s worth the money to add an NPX to a NC 200 series system…less so with a NC 300 series system

But a NAP 350 transforms a NC 200 or NC 300 based system - I’d go 222 + 350 rather than 222 + NPX + 250 (although I know this is not consistent with signal 1st). Add an NPX later.

333 + 332 + 350 (without NPX) is fantastic. I wouldn’t have believed how low the 804s can go - on several tracks you felt rather than heard the low frequencies; there was a difficult-to-describe ‘presence’ of music. The speakers were placed well away (1.5m or so) from the back wall and on most tracks it appeared that no sound emanated from the speakers themselves - everything came from a deep 3D soundstage in front of and behind that rear wall; I’d never experienced this so clearly before.

The NC 300 series combo above tamed the 804s and to me they make a great match (so the question of wether to change speakers is answered). The presentation combines the clarity and detail you’d expect of this relatively bright and revelling speaker but with a warmth and roundedness whilst the 350 ensures a tight thumping bass.

Adding an NPX to the 300 series combo did not add much IMHO - any differences were more easily heard (or maybe only heard) in classical tracks, perhaps adding a little more detail and warmth.

The more experienced amongst you might just think this is all obvious (and that I should get out more amongst high-end HiFi, Naim or non-Naim!) but the end result was that I wanted to stay there listening to music all afternoon and evening - and isn’t that what’s it all about really?

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Should also add - the NPX was well run-in (part of the dealer’s NC 200 series demo gear so getting on for 12 months old I guess) but all the NC 300 series components were fresh out of the box that morning (so factory-fresh and not run-in at all)

Yes a little bit😊

What you are describing regarding speakers disappearing and soundstage being 3d like that is an absolute starting point for me (depending of course on what you really are describing). If a system fails to do this, then it is no good at all (my opinion). I would rather listen for lifelike tunes and does the system convey emotions to my satisfaction. And in all honesty, I don’t know what makes a system do those things, but I hear when it does and doesn’t. That said I am sure the 300-series are good. I’ve heard it and found it good but wasn’t completely convinced. It was with the 250. My system at home does the same sort of thing for me already.

Haha - I do need to get out more then!

I guess a mixture of system shortcomings and very sub-optimal rooms have prevented me from hearing such an obvious and clear soundstage in the past

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One thing I find makes a world of difference is placing of speaker and listening position. I recognize not everyone can choose this without consideration for the room itself or the rest of the family. Speakers well away from room baundaries and the rack itself away from the wall between the speakers or even better somewhere else in the room.

Totally get this - the room is highly reflective so will also invest in some professional acoustic treatment

That’s too bad the 300 weren’t run in but I suspect they still sounded good. Have you decided on what you’re going to get? Or do you want another listen after the 300 have burned in? I think you’ll be happy you’re going with the NC over OC, the new sound and tech is a nice improvement.

Just ordered the 333/332/350 :grinning:

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Very nice! :+1:

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Congratulations on your purchase. I’ve run a series of Naim pre and power amp upgrades over the years through my 804 D3s starting with the basic 200/202 then a 282/250, and each time I’ve upgraded, the B&Ws impressed me by delivering the types of improvement in sound quality you described in an earlier post:- more bass, depth of imaging, etc., at each stage of the upgrade. My Naim dealer was offering an excellent discount on an ex-demo NAC252, NAP300PS, NAP300DR, XPS DR, NDX2 and Supercap system in advance of the new series launch, which I purchased knowing I wouldn’t be able to afford either of the new 200 or 300 series with power supplies. I’ve been amazed how the NAP 300 amp delivers so much more bass to the 804s even at very low listening levels and a whole range of other improvements in the treble area. (And I’ve lost the transformer hum and low level volume imbalance that I suffered with the previous Naim systems as a bonus). I’m sure if I ever get to audition the 804s with the 333- 332-350-XPS and there’s more cash in the bank, I’ll get the urge to upgrade. It’s been great reading about your recent experiences and for the me key point of your upgrade is that B&W 804s just keep on delivering the goods at every level of upgrade (and with hindsight that my NAP 200 and NAP 250 amps were probably slightly underpowered for these speakers) .

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Thanks Dave - yes we’ve got great speakers that deserve the best Naim amplification and it looks like you’ve got a great system to drive them

Thank you for an interesting and useful review. When the NPX300 was added, was it to the streamer (333) or to the pre-amp (332)?

For what it’s worth I ran a pair of 804s (not diamond) for about a decade and found them to be fantastic. Starting with Exposure 3010s amplification and then Naim with the SN1 and later SN2. Each step was a big improvement and I thought the SN2 drove them beautifully. Sadly I had to let them go before I moved on to my Naim separates, but have no doubt they would have continued to shine. I think the NC 250 would do splendidly as well. Haven’t had a chance to listen to 350’s through any speaker yet but they sure are receiving universal praise.

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