Upgraded to NDX2 & SN3 - now for the speakers

I would really like to one day. I am going to get some 10mm steel base plates made up with threads cut in and sprayed black. Just can’t decide wether to get them made up the same size as the base or slightly bigger. It will be interesting to hear. I have experimented with different feet materials and they definitely sound different!

Just lost an hour looking round Troels’s website X) Interesting stuff, your speakers look pretty special. I’ve always wanted to build my own, this just reminded me of the hours I used to spend noodling around the Wilmslow Audio website :slight_smile:

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What about some refurbed SBL’s?

Please explain how one can build a system from the front forward?

If I go and buy a turntable or a streamer how can I judge the sound of those components without speakers? What if the speakers I love won’t work with my newly acquired amp or in my room?

I certainly understand the Linn, source first thinking, but if starting from scratch one needs speakers first.

I couldn’t disagree more Opus. Each to their own.

Let me pose a question. How does one match power amp to speakers without knowing what speakers? Do you buy amp and speakers together? Let’s assume that since Naim no longer makes speakers I need to find others. Let’s further hypotheses that I’ve bought a 252 and a 300dr. I go listen to several speakers that members here like: Kudos, Harbeth, ATC, ProAc, B&W… after much listening I decide I love the Wilson, or YG or Magico… but my 90wpc 300Dr doesn’t really drive any of them adequately. What should I do?

I think that everything in the system is equally important and each component has the potential to let the system down.

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5x6m is a reasonable size room. £4k has decent buying power if you consider ex-dem and secondhand.

But it is very hard to recommend speakers as they are so much a matter of personal taste, all sounding so different and the primary contributor to sound character. All anyone can do is make suggestions. Personally , being someone who considers music incomplete if the bass is missing or curtailed, the ability to do bass quite low as well as controlled is important, and I’ve found I like the way transmission lines do bass. The PMC Twenty range right up to the twenty-26 can be had within your budget, though how capable your amp is at controlling them I have no idea - but then auditioning is essential for speakers. Other transmission lines manufacturers include Kerr Acoustics and Castle are other current transmission line manufacturers, though I haven’t heard any of theirs so no idea what they are like other than the opinion of reviewers. Anoth speaker I’d be interested in hearing with that budget is the ATC SCM40 (the lowest in the range I’d consider trying).

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Totally agree. I have a simple formula, it’s not always right but I’ve found it a good starting point, I try to spend approximately the same $$ on each component give or take.

Following @Innocent_Bystander ’s advice to me on another thread I went to listen to PMC 25.24s and loved them. Absolutely right about good, tight bass. Following this thread as I’m also looking at SN3 + NDX2 for a new room. Haven’t had the chance to listen to the PMC’s with the SN3 and NSX2 yet (and possibly never will unless I buy…).

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Interesting. What is it about transmission line speakers that makes them less common? Complex cabinet construction increasing cost and design complexity?

Having liked the Naim system and then finding you also like Wilson’s etc you do indeed have a problem. So you would buy the Wilson’s first and probably end up using Krell. Your system works for you and that is great. I am not claiming to be right, I just think source first is the better way to build a system. It’s all good Opus.

Precisely!

In my view, based on experience, the speakers are the most significant component in terms of sound quality (though speaker placement and listening position can adversely affect any system). The power amp is just a tool to drive the speakers, no more, no less - but some speakers require more drive capability than others. Drive capability is not just about power, but whether power is applied equally effectively across the entire frequency range, and the entire impedance range of the speaker. Also significant is the ‘grip’ of the amp, in respect of which a low output impedance can help. Beyond that of course the amp should convey the information as an exact replica of the incoming signal, without distortions or alterations - and all amps will be some degree of compromise between all the different aspects of this.

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Crappy speakers never sound good. Good inexpensive speakers can sound amazing when your source is excellent. Amazing speakers will sound awful with a crappy source. Of course everything hinges on our own subjective understanding of sound quality.

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Review here of the Focal Kanta 1 speakers, specifically tested with the Supernait 3:

That’s why synergy it’s a more correct approach instead of first speakers ( or source) philosophy

Sound quality will only ever be as good as the weakest link in the chain, whichever component that may be. In terms of sound quality, ideally one would have a perfectly balanced system at all times, however the most economical process of upgrading inevitable puts it out of balance at times.

However, my point re speakers was primarily about sound character, rather than sound quality per se. And I certainly wouldn’t advocate the best speakers in the world with the worst source, any more than I would vice versa. But these days a reasonably decent source need not be very expensive, while if full range sound is important to the individual, good sounding speakers can be expensive. (Rather different for anyone not bothered about the bottom couple of octaves.)

Which is why every single bit of my system was made by Naim!

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I feel that the source first philosophy comes more into play with smaller speakers as it makes them easier to listen to, without the bottom end, for longer periods.
When I finished building my big speakers I found that it seems to matter less what is driving them. I don’t know what it is, the time alignment, the big bass driver, the dedicated midrange specific scanspeak driver? Something about them is just so pleasing to listen to. I think a nova is on the cards in the future but I don’t think I’ll need any more than that.