Totally agree… happy to use all three.
Gender of the journalist is irrelevant, poor journalism is just that……
2 Likes
So, specifics please. In what sense is the article in question “poor journalism”?
Above we have a specific accusation that the article tries to make music listening “political”. Try as I might I re-read that article and I’ll be damned if I can find a single sentence which might lead to that conclusion.
Then there’s an accusation that the article asserts that just listening to vinyl makes you snobbish. Again, reading the article shows that could not be further from the truth. The basis of the article is that the writer loves music not formats and that choosing your own format is fine. Making it an end in itself is not. Inevitably some people on h-fi forums will disagree. I see no problem with that but let’s not suggest it said something it did not as a defence of fetishising a format.
There’s the plainly ridiculous suggestion that people have read the article and it was lazy and ought to have talked to some of the people involved. Kind of overlooks the point that to identify some people as having the approach described you absolutely must have both met and spoken (or more likely listened) to the endless justifications for why vinyl or why it’s better etc.
At least one poster has been clear headed enough to realise that some posters are slagging off the publication not the article or the writer but then we get the suggestion from others it’s failing was in not being balanced. A very odd suggestion bearing in mind it was an opinion piece; makes perfectly valid, albeit uncomfortable for some, points and the idiocy that good journalism equals balance is one of the fallacies which has arguably damaged good journalism. The idea that for everyone detailing climate change you need a denier to add “balance”.
I did laugh when @anon4489532 expressed his horror at the writer dancing on vinyl. That inadvertently nailed the issue beautifully. Maybe my experience growing up was very different to most people but we were brought up in the 60s with Dansettes; music centres in the 70s; tower systems in the 80s and midi systems in the 90s. That’s what the world of music listening actually looked like (putting aside portability - Walkmans, iPods etc.). Those with headphones and headphone amps or separates system, myself included, are a minority and one based on a sort of elitism/snobbishness. That may not sit well with people on a hi-fi forum but if we’re going to refute that then much stronger arguments than the ones here will have to be constructed.
My sister had, and still has, cassettes all over the floor. Her friends had vinyl or cassettes. Ditto my friends. Most had their vinyl against walls; on the floor; covers in one place and vinyl in another and so on. That’s what music listening actually looked and largely still looks like. There is doubtless no group on the planet accused of being snobs who would not try to refute it but of it were not true then why does the weird exists and for whom? What was the attempt to point the finger at young people buying vinyl, without whom frankly most on here would no longer have a hobby, of not an attempt to accuse others of snobbishness. No-one likes the word but the truth hurts. Again, I include myself in this, at least with regard to music itself.
I’ve a friend who’s a reggae/dub DJ. Even in the living room she plays vinyl using two Technics turntables into a graphic equaliser (quelle horreur). The vinyl, including thousands of Jamaican white labels, could be politely described as badly treated. However, ask her about any of it and her knowledge and love for it shines through. Ditto my sister and sixties southern soul.
Personally I read a bit of a light-hearted but entirely accurate dig from someone who also loves music but doesn’t actually care how it’s delivered. That’s not lazy journalism so much as a description of how the majority of the music loving world actually is and how it views us. Hard as it is to read our interest is undoubtedly boring to others and in talking about outside of places like this we are perceived as somewhat misguided and boring.
The laziness here is in making accusations of the writer for purposes of self-justification. That’s not aimed at any one person. More an observation of the collective behaviour. I wonder what would have happened if said article had been written by a man in an esteemed hi-fi publication and with interviews with one or two of us. The fact the subject has generated a thread of this length suggests a nerve has been touched.
10 Likes
I don’t see why it’s poor journalism, just her point of view. I’ve always rather liked Barbara Ellen’s writing - at least she gets to the point and often has a good one. There is something weird about people queuing to buy new vinyl that’s usually the offcuts of the record industry - odd live recordings, outtakes albums that aren’t very interesting, ancient reissues we’ve all heard a million times.
But then that reflects (my) age - I have many of those albums, am quite happy to wait until the odd one appears on ebay (e.g. my fab pink vinyl Loaded and blue vinyl LA Turnaround); and more pertinently, I can remember queuing up at 4am in Bristol drizzle in 1981 outside Hifi Markets who were having a huge sale (one item each, please). My purchase was an Audio-Technica ATH-8 headphone set worth £200 odd - for £10. Loved it - but I was a lot younger.
2 Likes
Hi Mike, guess we will have to disagree on this.
Poor journalism, was, and still is my opinion, and as I stated earlier, nothing to do with the gender of the journalist. I suppose I’m a little biased against journalism that is light on any actual facts, or even examples to back up assertions or conclusions. I hate “fluff” articles, but that’s my view. Some seem to like them. An opinion piece granted, and she is of course entitled to her opinion……… as are we all.
The writer was happy to assert that people who like vinyl are “fuddy-duddy and weirdly sex-specific something mainly blokes did” You may well agree, yet I dare say if I were to state that Netball was a female sport without explaining why, or supplying some evidence I’d likely to be accused of sexism, certainly by those on some wings of the press spectrum.
The writer states “Do Vinyl Snobs think they’re superior to other music fans? I think a fair few of them do” (assertion, no examples or evidence) . Also, “Worse, there’s the abiding sense of snobbery, elitism, a posture of authenticity that too often feels like crowing” but again no actual examples, or even what she considers to be such behaviour, are we are just supposed to believe her ? Poor journalism imho. Other opinions are available and no doubt just as valid…… 
Absolutely agree it’s a puff piece and I would generally agree with you. I prefer actual news. That said, what evidence would you have her produce to essentially demonstrate something that, if we’re being absolutely and scrupulously honest with ourselves rather than pompously affronted, we already know to be true?
I mean, seriously, get someone you know to describe the tone of this thread and see if they, in all seriousness, don’t use words like snobbery, elitism, posturing and worse. We’ve basically written, once again, the very example you claim she fails to produce. Stating that other opinions are available is spot on. We have one. It is that she is wrong. Unfortunately she’s very much in the majority and doesn’t really need to evidence what the majority self-evidently see to be true.
The lack of the ability to look in the mirror; recognise what you see; hold your hands up in a self-deprecating manner about a minority absolutely elitist interest which inarguably involves an element of elitism requires nothing else to be evidenced really.
That aside, I must say I don’t buy the “if I said netball was female” argument. It’s a bit of a self-pitying woe is me straw man from my perspective. I very much doubt anyone would say any such thing and I think we probably know that.
Enjoy your hobby; don’t be defensive or rude or arrogant or condescending about it but also laugh when you recognise yourself. No-one will die.
1 Like
RSD is both a rip of and a parody at the same time. Trying to sell fake scarcity in a time of plenty. Fair play, it generally works but oh dear.
I always remember walking up Market Street in Manchester a few years back wondering what the queue was. Found an ex work colleague and her partner in the queue and it became apparent they were queuing to get into Piccadilly Records a mere 1/4 of a mile away to get “some live Fall”. They didn’t even know which. An apparent additional attraction was that the shop had a live DJ.
Bumped into them later. They queued for 120 minutes; spent £300 on a limited edition CD box of Fall releases; hated the DJ and a year later said items were made widely available on CD, vinyl and streaming.
She hits some good points…
My non scientific total subjective classification of vinly users %s
-
80% cool factor
-
15% nostalgic users
-
5% the guys with washing machines, glowes and anti static guns with 25 copies of Kind of blue
I was 2,5 but after cd555 i am Buying only cds
Well you made me laugh so a good start to the day!
Sorry Mike, I still say we will have to disagree but I’d submit that the above quote sums up your last reply perfectly😉 off to look in a mirror…
Have a great day Mike, and no offence taken.
I remember you were willing to buy a Kronos turntable for a long time. Plans changed?
No offence intended but goodness audiophiles do need some self-depreciation to prick the insular nature of the beast occasionally.
1 Like
Bought a nd555 instead:)
1 Like
I’ll own up to that. The tactile experience from a more human age when I was also much younger and the everyday world still had a sense of wonder about it. Somehow, after a stressful day at work or even a jam packed day with the kids with my every moment dictated by a smartphone led itinerary, the world seems more manageable again with a cup of tea and the spin of a disc.
For audio I prefer digital sources, but vinyl is definitely therapeutic
I have approximately 3000 LPs; basically a lifetimes collection. Painstakingly maintained, cleaned, filed etc. I love listening to them, but the whole experience is an absolute arse ache in reality. My DAVE is so good, and Roon is so easy, that putting on an LP now feels more like hassle. If I didn’t have the collection I wouldn’t start now.
7 Likes
I love my Vinyl, but I wouldn’t start again now. I very rarely buy vinyl except 2nd hand. In fact I buy a lot of new and 2nd hand CDs.
Is that a description of a vinyl LP?
I can see the profile of that journalist. She mainly writes comments about tv program. I guess her goal is more to divert people, not write a serious “ thesis “ on a subject. She can’t be taken too seriously.
2 Likes
The journalist here has written for both NME and Mojo; has an abiding love of a wide range of music; has stated unequivocally that she loves vinyl but appears to have committed the cardinal sin of making both accurate statements and having some fun at the expense of men whilst doing so. Journalism is an incredibly difficult career to be in nowadays. Finding a way to write about music and make money is very difficult indeed and doing so asa won an even more so.
I’ve yet to see one coherent expression of why any aspect of what has been said is in any significant way incorrect? Are there people like she describes? Yes. Are they boring? To all but themselves/ourselves. Are they pompous? Read this thread and numerous others on here and elsewhere.
Own it. Enjoy it. Laugh about it but let’s please not pretend it isn’t true and hasn’t hit a nerve.
7 Likes
